I1L2T3 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I'd agree with Ivanava, I think there's more chance of me being killed by a convicted murderer than being incorrectly given the death penalty.....I'll take those odds. If we don't allow endless appeals, it would also save money which could be used elsewhere in society (NHS), potentially saving further lives. Regards Doom I know what you think but you still haven't proven in any way why it is acceptable for the state to risk executing innocent people. All you have is a little numbers game going on in your head with no stats to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 You appear incapable of understanding that its not possible to provide you with the thousands of pieces of information that may or may not change your position on this matter. You appear to have an opinion that differs from mine, so if you think I am wrong and you do appear desperate to prove that I am wrong, then I am happy to see your evidence that proves that I am wrong. Ok lets start again as you seem hopelessly confused, whilst continuously asking my for evidence.. You posted: You only think that because it counters your argument, if you want to save innocent lives then more will be saved by killing murderers. Your way of doing things just leaves innocent people locked up for a very long time, whilst more innocent people are killed by the convicted criminals released from prison. To which I posted: Show us the numbers then so we can see the scale of the problem and judge your proposal. How many murderers go on to murder again? To which you've led me on a merry dance and finally given a weaselly answer. Part of which is: You appear incapable of understanding that its not possible to provide you with the thousands of pieces of information.... So are your really trying to claim that you need to provided me with thousands of pieces of information so you can tell me the numbers of murderers who go on to murder again, so we can see the scale of the problem and judge your proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 It doesn't change my opinion in the slightest, I still support the introduction of the death penalty. Life is not always fair and sometimes bad decisions are made that cost innocent lives, but if the bigger picture is that it saves more innocent lives in the long run then I see it as a price worth paying. Regardless of the death penalty, this guy still lost 25 years of his life due to an error, does that mean we should do away with prisons to avoid these mistakes happening? Regards Doom Killing innocent people in the process of saving innocent lives is a bit of a flaw in the capital punishment argument though. Doesn't locking people up for life do the same job without the risk of doing ourselves exactly what we want to prevent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I know what you think but you still haven't proven in any way why it is acceptable for the state to risk executing innocent people. All you have is a little numbers game going on in your head with no stats to back it up. It's acceptable for what I consider to be the greater good. Declaring war on Nazi Germany was always going to cost 100,000's of innocent British lives, but the politicians made the decision for the greater good as they saw it. Closing hospitals and/or limiting the spending on drugs and operations will cost lives, but politicians make those decisions for what they consider to be the greater good. I have no figures to prove whether the death penalty will save or cost lives, because there aren't any, it's just a matter of opinion for which there's no wrong or right answer....My opinion is that in certain circumstances it probably will save lives and save money. Regards Doom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 It doesn't change my opinion in the slightest, I still support the introduction of the death penalty. Life is not always fair and sometimes bad decisions are made that cost innocent lives, but if the bigger picture is that it saves more innocent lives in the long run then I see it as a price worth paying. Regardless of the death penalty, this guy still lost 25 years of his life due to an error, does that mean we should do away with prisons to avoid these mistakes happening? Regards Doom I wonder if you'd have your wallet out if the price you had to pay was one of your children or a friend/family member suffering a miscarriage of justice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I wonder if you'd have your wallet out if the price you had to pay was one of your children or a friend/family member suffering a miscarriage of justice? The odds against that happening are so miniscule that I'd take them, especially this day and age with DNA and CCTV. I'd say locking an innocent man up for 25 years is near enough as bad as giving him the death penalty, does that mean we do away with jails? I guess it depends on what price you're willing to pay for potential miscarriages of justice and what the alternatives are. Regards Doom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 The odds against that happening are so miniscule that I'd take them, especially this day and age with DNA and CCTV. I'd say locking an innocent man up for 25 years is near enough as bad as giving him the death penalty, does that mean we do away with jails? I guess it depends on what price you're willing to pay for potential miscarriages of justice and what the alternatives are. Regards Doom Ok, fair point. Let's put it another way, would you be content if one of your children murdered someone and were put to death? Personally I agree with you, 25 years incarcerated is as bad as death, that's why I know murderers on long sentences are well being punished, I'm not sure I could reconcile the view that killing innocent people is preferable to them having served a long sentence though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 It doesn't work like that, there isn't a link that I can provide that you will accept 1. How very handy. 2. Why not try him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanava Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Ok lets start again as you seem hopelessly confused, whilst continuously asking my for evidence.. You posted: To which I posted: To which you've led me on a merry dance and finally given a weaselly answer. Part of which is: You appear incapable of understanding that its not possible to provide you with the thousands of pieces of information.... So are your really trying to claim that you need to provided me with thousands of pieces of information so you can tell me the numbers of murderers who go on to murder again, so we can see the scale of the problem and judge your proposal. My opinion is based on 50 years of life and an incredibly large amount of information, this information isn't condensed into a single web site that I can post for you. You either believe that I am right or you believe that I am wrong, and if you believe that I am wrong and you want to change my mind, then it is for you to supply some facts that will achieve your desired goal. For now I haven't see a single good reason not to execute Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale and I can think of many good reasons to execute them. ---------- Post added 14-03-2014 at 13:09 ---------- Killing innocent people in the process of saving innocent lives is a bit of a flaw in the capital punishment argument though. Doesn't locking people up for life do the same job without the risk of doing ourselves exactly what we want to prevent? A life of confinement would be far worse than death, and I can't think of a good reason to continue feeding Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale, there are people starving in the world that are much more deserving of the food and care they will receive. ---------- Post added 14-03-2014 at 13:11 ---------- I wonder if you'd have your wallet out if the price you had to pay was one of your children or a friend/family member suffering a miscarriage of justice? They are more likely to suffer at the hands of a convicted murderer than they are of being found guilty of of a murder they didn't do. The odds are in my favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 My opinion is based on 50 years of life and an incredibly large amount of information, this information isn't condensed into a single web site that I can post for you. You either believe that I am right or you believe that I am wrong, and if you believe that I am wrong and you want to change my mind, then it is for you to supply some facts that will achieve your desired goal. For now I haven't see a single good reason not to execute Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale and I can think of many good reasons to execute them. If I was inclined to change your mind how could I, when it seems to based upon faith rather than anything tangible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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