*_ash_* Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Some people (#12 and #13) are being ridiculous - What was ridiculous about my post? [...] not to mention unfair to Anna B. She merely posed the question and does not deserved to be heckled and grunted at for it. Perhaps the grunters could do us all a favour and leave the thread to those who have something substantive to add to the debate. How have I heckled and grunted at her? What makes your response more substantive than mine? You just have a different view is all. In fact when you wrote 'Whilst those boundaries have become more blurred over the last half century' isn't far from my comment that people and societies aren't static in there structure. Surely it's reasonable to compare Dr, Nurse and Teacher? They're all public sector, two of them are even in the same industry and the 3rd requires about as much training as the 2nd... I'm not sure why you've picked these in this way. If you look at what I wrote, I split up this part ... 'doctors, lawyers and bankers, all of whom are able to earn £100,000+ with comparative ease'... and said they aren't the same thing, and not necessarily easy money, and that a doctor isn't likely to be doing it for monetary reasons. Then later took this list... 'architects, engineers, teachers, small business people' and removed teachers from it, as they too go into this profession not for primarily monetary reasons. Of course the other 3 may also not primarily do them for big money, but anyone going into teaching in the public sector should be bright enough to know that there are far more limitations for earning potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Though people who like to use the term chav claim in their defence (implausibly) that 'chav' doesn't necessarily refer to one class of people, but can refer to middle and upper class people too. Well, I don't. I do use it to refer to a social group distinct from the middle class (see above). Not sure that 'upper class' has any meaning any longer, though? How do you define 'upper class'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I'm trying to show you can pick on the particularities of any person or group, for example being French, and be rude about it. It can be amusing for people not being targeted by the insult, but not be quite the same for the person being insulted. As a rule of thumb, do as you would be done by. Would you like to be called a chav (or foreign French filth)? It doesn't matter whether it's racist or just plain rude, the point is it's potentially offensive. So the chav who is acting like a chav doesn't deserve to be called a chav because it might offend them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maz3 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 What about domestic rosbeef filth, though? Well, they're fair game ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 What was ridiculous about my post? How have I heckled and grunted at her? . I was referring to comments like this: Utter rubbish. You just can't see it every time you post. You sound like Douglas Alexander on Question Time the other night. You compare business and public sector work as if they are comparable. See above (and add yawn) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 What was ridiculous about my post? How have I heckled and grunted at her? What makes your response more substantive than mine? You just have a different view is all. In fact when you wrote 'Whilst those boundaries have become more blurred over the last half century' isn't far from my comment that people and societies aren't static in there structure. I'm not sure why you've picked these in this way. If you look at what I wrote, I split up this part ... 'doctors, lawyers and bankers, all of whom are able to earn £100,000+ with comparative ease'... and said they aren't the same thing, and not necessarily easy money, and that a doctor isn't likely to be doing it for monetary reasons. Then later took this list... 'architects, engineers, teachers, small business people' and removed teachers from it, as they too go into this profession not for primarily monetary reasons. Of course the other 3 may also not primarily do them for big money, but anyone going into teaching in the public sector should be bright enough to know that there are far more limitations for earning potential. Maybe I misunderstood who you were saying shouldn't be compared? The OP compares Drs on one hand with Nurses on the other (amongst a few other professions). Engineers can still make pretty decent money, not quite on a par with a consultant in the NHS though unless they've started their own business. So were you just saying that we shouldn't compare public/private, even though the OP wasn't doing so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliceBB Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 So the chav who is acting like a chav doesn't deserve to be called a chav because it might offend them? I share your confusion at this uncharacteristic outbreak of apparent political correctness on this forum! Should we be offended by being called 'middle class' as well? Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuttsie Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 'Chav' is not a racial identifier and cannot therefore have racist undertones. No offence was intended by it. It's an objective descriptor, as the dictionary definiton suggests, although it isn't simply about clothing or loutish behaviour, although they are a lifestyle choice for many in this group. It is more an identifier of the new social underclass which has emerged in the UK last twenty or so years. They are characterised not by the work they do, (as one of the things which separate them from the traditional working class is that they lack a work ethic) but by their attitude to work and especially to education/training. They are not middle class since they lack educational aspiration. Once they develop it, and start aspiring to learn for its own sake, or in order to fit themselves for work,whether vocational or professional, they enter the ranks of the working or professional classes. it is true that some university students are labelled 'Chavs' by their feloow students, but that is about clothing, on the whole. ---------- Post added 17-03-2014 at 14:31 ---------- So what would you like us to call this clearly identifiable social group? The 'new, non-working underclass' best describes them, I suppose, but no doubt some people would find that offensive too. Perhaps they are bankers;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*_ash_* Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I was referring to comments like this: 'An accurate prediction? What do you think?'... is a question. 'Utter rubbish' is an answer. And I wrote why I thought it was. - 'You just can't see it every time you post. You sound like Douglas Alexander on Question Time the other night. You compare business and public sector work as if they are comparable. '... So I accused Anna of sounding like a well-respected politician? How grunting of me I also explained why they aren't comparable. What is your issue with discussing things on a discussion forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Well, they're fair game ... Really? I feel I must ask because, if that is the case, why would you take exception to me calling young tracksuited and hoodied males (of indeterminate extraction, but quasi-certain white English) up to no good (lighting wild fires on somebody else's land, with no apparent means of control, on a Sunday at 09:45 and then on a Monday at 12:45-ish) "scroates"? Do you want some gravy on your double-standards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.