National teachers' strike set for 26 March

[truman]

Only 10% of the UK population have got a postgraduate qualification.

 

So you're saying that only qualifications gained at uni = education...what about people who gained vocational qualifications after graduating? Does that make them less educated...?

[F. Sidebottom]

The problem with claiming 'enough is enough' as some are, is that it doesn't wash when you use that line every year (there were even strikes back under the last government!!).

 

Teachers are gaining the reputation the miners had in the 70's and 80's.

 

In fact, I can't really remember a time when teachers weren't whinging about something.

 

I suspect that rather than this being a fresh grievance, this is largely just a political statement. And if so, it's very sad that our children are being used as political pawns.

 

There again, I have met plenty of teachers who acted as though they actually believed that the education system was to keep them in a job rather than educate our children.

[Swiftsrus]

So you're saying that only qualifications gained at uni = education...what about people who gained vocational qualifications after graduating? Does that make them less educated...?

 

No what I am saying is that only 10% of people have a postgraduate education. That making them, by having a qualification higher than a degree, in the top 10% of educated people in the UK. On paper anyway. Not sure if it makes people with vocational qualification any more or less educated. On paper less, but in terms of knowledge, of a certain area, probably more. Not sure of the point really.

[truman]

No what I am saying is that only 10% of people have a postgraduate education. That making them, by having a qualification higher than a degree, in the top 10% of educated people in the UK. On paper anyway. Not sure if it makes people with vocational qualification any more or less educated. On paper less, but in terms of knowledge, of a certain area, probably more. Not sure of the point really.

 

 

You brought the issue of teachers being in the top 10% of educated people.. If you don't know what the point is then why mention it? My argument is that teachers are not necessarily in the top 10% of educated people...using uni as a synonym for education is wrong in my opinion..why do you think a PGCE is a higher educational benchmark than MRICS for example..?

[Bypassblade]

Teachers don't care about anyone else but themselves. It's us that pay their salaries through our taxes. Any pay rise they get comes directly out of our pockets. They already are paid far more than average, get holidays beyond the wildest dreams of anyone in the private sector, and their pensions are incredible. Why do they expect people who are far more worse off than then to be sympathetic to their cause?

 

Ah so teachers don't pay tax & NI themselves, get real; same as when people have a go a JCP staff they pay tax and NI also.

[Daven]

Teachers don't care about anyone else but themselves. It's us that pay their salaries through our taxes. Any pay rise they get comes directly out of our pockets. They already are paid far more than average, get holidays beyond the wildest dreams of anyone in the private sector, and their pensions are incredible. Why do they expect people who are far more worse off than then to be sympathetic to their cause?

 

Since teachers also pay taxes does this mean that they pay their own salaries ?

[L00b]

Since teachers also pay taxes does this mean that they pay their own salaries ?

Not those who work in the private sector.

 

But the tax and NI paid by those in the public sector simply amounts to recycling tax revenue.

 

That's just basic logic, nothing partisan about it, or to be biased about.

 

In an ideal world/taxation system, teachers (and any other state-paid worker) wouldn't pay any income tax/NI/the like and just get paid a 'smaller' wage (i.e. their current net) without deductions. Making the volume handled by the system smaller and so (in theory) simpler to administrate. But I digress.

 

For the sake of clarity, that's not agreeing with Happ's argument either (since paying state teachers out of taxation does not confer any 'rights' to the taxpayers on the said teachers whatsoever, anymore than it would on police officers, firemen, NHS doctors, NHS nurses, <etc>).

[Swiftsrus]

You brought the issue of teachers being in the top 10% of educated people.. If you don't know what the point is then why mention it? My argument is that teachers are not necessarily in the top 10% of educated people...using uni as a synonym for education is wrong in my opinion..why do you think a PGCE is a higher educational benchmark than MRICS for example..?

 

I don't know if it is or it is not, I am not a teacher or surveyor; and I am not making any comparrisons about the worth of qualifications.

 

The point I am making is that if we continue to erode the terms and conditions of the teaching profession then the retention and recruitment of teachers will, and is, becoming an issue. We want our teachers to be as good as they possibly can, but talent will go elsewhere.

 

From a position of knowing what a teacher does, I would say that a teacher might choose a different occupation and be better off financially, and with less pressure. The figures around teachers leaving the profession give us a clue that this might well be true.

[alchresearch]

Complete rubbish. Teachers are leaving the profession in DROVES!

 

My experience in schools says otherwise. In the past three years I know teachers who have left to work in other schools, and just one retirement.

 

I have a feeling the figures are manipulated:

 

Ofsted chief: two-fifths of teachers quitting within five years is 'scandal'

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jan/15/ofsted-chief-teachers-quitting-scandal

 

But also from the Guardian:

 

Broadly speaking, the majority of teachers in England who leave the profession tend to be either in their early careers (within the first five years) or toward the end (over 50s) – according to earlier Department for Education research. Notably, a significant proportion (around three in 10) of the younger teachers are leaving with an intention to return, for example going on sabbatical, travelling or starting a family.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/2013/aug/01/why-are-teachers-leaving-education

[Fogey]

You brought the issue of teachers being in the top 10% of educated people.. If you don't know what the point is then why mention it? My argument is that teachers are not necessarily in the top 10% of educated people...using uni as a synonym for education is wrong in my opinion..why do you think a PGCE is a higher educational benchmark than MRICS for example..?

 

As far as I am aware MRICS is not a qualification, it is acknowledgement of a membership of a professional body which probably requires a certain level of competence to be obtained. Most likely a degree (possibly other types of course) in a relevant field and a certain amount of work experience of a certain type. The post graduate qualification is a higher level of 'education' because unlike an undergraduate course it is made up of a more advanced level of study with more self determined learning and a more overarching understanding of issues, linked with a more focused understanding of the details. In the case of a teacher it is for a course of prescribed study and understanding to a level of professional competence.

 

Those with postgraduate qualifications under their belt will tend to have a broader view with better abilities to understand and see the world in a wider way. To achieve such a level of understanding of the way the world works takes an extraordinary level of commitment and the development of a particular set of attitudes to the wider world. This sort of perspective and level of understanding are of course exactly what we want to expose our children to.

 

Of course with a lifetime of experience under your belt where you have travelled the world, mixed with many cultures, worked in many different jobs you could attain the same sort of outlook. However you are unlikely to achieve it by your mid twenties (more likely your mid fifties) and you can't prove it.