Maz3 Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 .....Not letting people with mental health issues own a gun would be a good start. The trouble is, a lot of the disturbed teenagers involved in the US killings would not have had mental illness diagnoses, apart from being known as being 'a bit weird' at their schools. And many of them just used their parents' guns .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchemist Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Many of us hate guns and the NRA, but ownership of guns is vested in State's rights. If you want to live in a state that is strong on gun control like most Northern east coast ones or California then move or take your chances. Obviously you dont hate guns enough as I assume that if sufficient people DID hate them then they could force through a repeal of the stupid amendment. Whilst watching west wing again a sensible solution was expressed that leave the guns alone and restrict the sale of ammunition and register every bullet to who bought it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Obviously you dont hate guns enough as I assume that if sufficient people DID hate them then they could force through a repeal of the stupid amendment. Whilst watching west wing again a sensible solution was expressed that leave the guns alone and restrict the sale of ammunition and register every bullet to who bought it How would you control the production of ammunition? Many gun owners manufacture or reload their own casings. If you prohibited ammunition to only those who have registered then all you would do is create a black market manufacturing industry. Maybe a hard hitting educational programme aimed at youth at an early stage?...saying that that would probably fail too considering children get blown away within school premises, you might think that would be a hard hitting educational lesson in itself, but sadly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Obviously you dont hate guns enough as I assume that if sufficient people DID hate them then they could force through a repeal of the stupid amendment. Whilst watching west wing again a sensible solution was expressed that leave the guns alone and restrict the sale of ammunition and register every bullet to who bought it Oh yeah, prize liberal moonbeam President Barlett (Martin Sheen) waves his magic wand but at the same time making sure he would be exempt from such restrictions... Cos he's the Prez. Former Vice-President Dick Cheney was more dangerous with a hunting rifle than just about any other hunter who ever used one Nobody's going to "force through" a repeal of the Second Amendment. Obviously being a foreigner the Constition means nothing to you so why give advice or opinions on something you dont understand. You dont have a written Constitution in the UK because your rulers, the powers that be, the wealthy and your aristicracy dont want one. Once you have something written on a document it becomes something not to be lightly tampered with. Nobody tries to change the wording or the very basic rights set forth in the Magna Carta do they? . On the other hand not having a written Constitution guarded by the highest court in the land means that any politician or parliament can dicker around all they want when it comes altering or changing laws pertaining to rights. Look at your European Union Parliament. They have passed laws that have undermined or superceded many of the laws in England and Scotland and that's one of the reasons why so many voters in the UK want a referendum on whether to stay in or leave the EU They say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. No doubt when the Volstad Act was passed in America in 1919 outlawing alcohol the do gooders thought they were dong the citizenry a big favour. No more drunkeness and sin to be replaced by some kind of Temperance Paradise. How wrong they were ! Let me explain something about gun control. Like Prohibiton it wouldnt work. Guns no longer for sale in the US would be smuggled across from Mexico and Canada. For every truck load the border patrol would impound five or more would get through. In the end all you'd have is a few million guns... unregistered of course in the hands of the citizenry. There are enough laws and penalties existing on the books to severely punish the unlawful use of firearms. It just takes judges with balls to enforce those laws. You cannot however legislate mental health and there are always going to be troubled people who outwardly appear to be normal but in reality are time bombs waiting to go off. Somethimes something can be done if it's caught in time to help them, many times it's not because people dont have the ability to see into the future. How many times has it been said after some shocking crime takes place? "We never thought he was capable of doing that. He was such a nice person" Elliot Rodgers the Isla Vista shooter IMO would have killed anyway with or without a gun. He stabbed three of his room mates to death. He could have done the same by going into any public place and doing the same with that knife before he could be finally stopped I get sick and tired of hearing after every tragic shooting by some nut case somewhere that we need "gun control" to solve the problem. It's a useless argument, always has been, always will be. I suggest instead that we start locking up every character who shows abnormal and anti-social tendencies of any sort and in that way we can forestall any possibel future act of nasiness on that persons part... another stupid suggestion of course Finally, shock, horror a shooting at a Jewish museum in Brussels, four dead ! Oh wow! And Belgians are safe cos no one is allowed a gun in that postage stamp sized law abiding country ---------- Post added 26-05-2014 at 21:41 ---------- The one thing that I find odd about the use of Guns in the states, when there is a nutter running round shooting people, there never seams to be a member of the public to stop them by shooting them. I always thought the whole point of gun ownership was for protection, yet no one other than the police appear to stop these nutters. That's because in most places carrying a gun is illegal. You need a special permit and they dont give those away like peanuts at a party. They can be used for recreational purposes or home protection but laws on how they can be transported in a vehicle are on the books and woe betide any driver who might be stopped by the law and whose found to have a loaded hand gun in the glove compartment or stashed under his seat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Elliot Rodgers the Isla Vista shooter IMO would have killed anyway with or without a gun. He stabbed three of his room mates to death. He could have done the same by going into any public place and doing the same with that knife before he could be finally stopped I get sick and tired of hearing after every tragic shooting by some nut case somewhere that we need "gun control" to solve the problem. It's a useless argument, always has been, always will be. I suggest instead that we start locking up every character who shows abnormal and anti-social tendencies of any sort and in that way we can forestall any possibel future act of nasiness on that persons part... another stupid suggestion of course Finally, shock, horror a shooting at a Jewish museum in Brussels, four dead ! Oh wow! And Belgians are safe cos no one is allowed a gun in that postage stamp sized law abiding country when youve finished ranting................ A: how many can you kill on a rampage with a knife compared to a semi automatic? B: so the victims father is a nutcase? how nice of you, so anybody with "mental health issues" even slightly, should be thrown in jail just so you can play around with guns? C: your last bits not even in the same ball park, yes shootings happen all over the world, but the point is in america it seems to be almost weekly or monthly and theres normally far more victims per shooting, its almost becoming the national sport more info on the perpetrator of the last case here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-27579128 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 when youve finished ranting................ A: how many can you kill on a rampage with a knife compared to a semi automatic? B: so the victims father is a nutcase? how nice of you, so anybody with "mental health issues" even slightly, should be thrown in jail just so you can play around with guns? C: your last bits not even in the same ball park, yes shootings happen all over the world, but the point is in america it seems to be almost weekly or monthly and theres normally far more victims per shooting, its almost becoming the national sport more info on the perpetrator of the last case here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-27579128 Whoosh! my attempt humour went right over your head cos you were so anxious to get your two pence worth in you didnt bother to read or understand my remarks properly . Also that was no rant. Regard it as an educational guide to people who dont live here and think they can come up with solutions that should work in a totally different cultural environment than they themselves live in. Americans apart from sharing a common language with the British resemble them in no other way nor is there any common interest in such pastimes as traditions, sports and other recreational activities Shootings are not a national sport of course. It a darn sight better off than in other countries in the world where thousands every month get killed because of "religious differences". Whats the present score in Syria, Libya, Iraq, Egypt and Afghanistan? Better you direct your concerns to those areas of the world where wholsesale slaughter is taking place on a daily basis... or are you of the opinion that those people aint like us and therefore it just comes natural to them and not a subject for concern or debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Also that was no rant. Regard it as an educational guide to people who dont live here Oh dear..you do repeat this nonsense Ad infinitum. He was right, it was a rant, certainly not educational. and think they can come up with solutions that should work in a totally different cultural environment than they themselves live in. Americans apart from sharing a common language with the British resemble them in no other way nor is there any common interest in such pastimes as traditions, sports and other recreational activities You moved to the US, not Borneo fcs! Yes there are cultural differences with the US and UK, as there are cultural differences within the US as there are within the UK. What does cultural differences have to do with gun control as a means to debating it. One deranged Hispanic, Scandinavian or single toothed Buck carrying a weapon with intent isn't the best of arguments against discussing nutters with guns...wherever they are. Cultural differences didn't stop us getting all girly and PC when we went into Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Whoosh! my attempt humour went right over your head Your previous quote was humour? I'm sorry but it just came across as your usual foaming at the mouth America is better than everyone just because usual sort of line of things... Try and calm down, be a little less arrogant and more humble and you might find people listen to you more sympathetically when you want to make a point. ---------- Post added 27-05-2014 at 02:46 ---------- Nobody's going to "force through" a repeal of the Second Amendment. Obviously being a foreigner the Constition means nothing to you so why give advice or opinions on something you dont understand. You dont have a written Constitution in the UK because your rulers, the powers that be, the wealthy and your aristicracy dont want one. Once you have something written on a document it becomes something not to be lightly tampered with. Nobody tries to change the wording or the very basic rights set forth in the Magna Carta do they? . They've only repealed all of it apart from 3 clauses. So yes, excluding that 95% no-one changed the wording at all... Much like the Constitution, that had to have it's wording changed ten times before the thing was even agreed and in force... and amended how many more times since then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 You're in America. You care about it enough to come up with some invented story about Sheffield having more gun crime than Connecticut and to keep coming back to stand up for the right of dangerous people to own guns.I don't know where I read it, but I did. However, I just read something about Shefield gangs are doing a bunch of shooting in the Guardian, more in the time span than Hartord. Thats good enough for me for now. Paradise is not where you are , much as you go on. Don't bother me with any more garbage, its getting old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Oh dear..you do repeat this nonsense Ad infinitum. He was right, it was a rant, certainly not educational. You moved to the US, not Borneo fcs! Yes there are cultural differences with the US and UK, as there are cultural differences within the US as there are within the UK. What does cultural differences have to do with gun control as a means to debating it. One deranged Hispanic, Scandinavian or single toothed Buck carrying a weapon with intent isn't the best of arguments against discussing nutters with guns...wherever they are. Cultural differences didn't stop us getting all girly and PC when we went into Iraq. I dont think the opinions of forum posters living in Sheffield, Yorkshire make an impression or matter a damn to someone living out far west in the USA who keeps a gun or two for target shooting and the occasional hunting trip. Yes, we are far apart matey not only distance wise but culturally also so best give it a rest. Heard it all before already. ---------- Post added 27-05-2014 at 06:14 ---------- Your previous quote was humour? I'm sorry but it just came across as your usual foaming at the mouth America is better than everyone just because usual sort of line of things... Try and calm down, be a little less arrogant and more humble and you might find people listen to you more sympathetically when you want to make a point. ---------- Post added 27-05-2014 at 02:46 ---------- They've only repealed all of it apart from 3 clauses. So yes, excluding that 95% no-one changed the wording at all... Much like the Constitution, that had to have it's wording changed ten times before the thing was even agreed and in force... and amended how many more times since then? Why humble? I seem to be talking to people who live in a society where more and more guns are being used in criminal activities. Yes, i'm talking about the UK. In twenty years from now the British police will be all armed and guns will be commonplace among the criminal element but you Honest Citizen Joe wont be allowed to own a firearm. British society has had a good run for it's money in as far as the low incidence of gun crimes are concerned. The British police have prided themselves in being one of the very few police forces in the world that have not been armed. But it's all changing just as society is changing. You'e seen it happening over the past 30 years. Police dont go around on bikes anymore. They no longer inspire the respect they once did nor have that social connection with the neighbourhoods Two man car patrols are needed to go into many inner city areas where there are drug dealers and related gang activity, SWAT (or the British equivalent of SWAT) police squads are now in existence. The once law abiding Sussex town I lived several years in now has "no go" areas. None of this existed when I left the UK in 1965. For one of my age who can remember the times before the changes are definitely manifesting themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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