GPs are bad for your health?

[Cyclone]

I can't see much relevance, but, if you insist, no, I don't the first person to think of this preventative medicine. Interested to see what you're going to do with this confession

You brought up preventative medicine, and how you thought the NHS should focus on it. As if they'd never had this idea before and didn't already operate many preventative schemes where it's the cost effective thing to do.

When I point out that the idea isn't new (by asking you if you thought they hadn't thought of it already) you claim it's a strawman, and now you can't see the relevance of it.

The relevance is that they already do it. You're suggesting something that already happens as if it's a new idea.

 

 

 

Like I said, they are basing their views on proper research. They push plant strong diet as a cure for heart disease, and, consider heart surgery/statins to be inneffective/harmful, on the basis of the multiple studies and proper research they continously quote. As I said before, one of them is testifying to the US senate comittee on this very issue- he'd look pretty lame if he came in with no evidence.

Indeed. And other doctors think that medicinal treatments are appropriate. I doubt that many would actually disagree that a healthy diet can't hurt. Neither have I. I don't know what point you're trying to make.

 

Similarly, I've not said you did say anything about fruit eaters being fat?

 

Why do you think it's a low-calorie diet.

Because it is. You've said several times that it's difficult to consume enough calories to maintain weight.

I did mention that newbies are encouraged to eat at least 3,000 calories a day: that's not low. I also mentioned that durian rider often has 6/7,000 calories a day.

 

So, not that low.

Which appears to contradict what you said earlier, and also makes no sense. If you eat 6000 calories a day (in fruit, he'd have to never stop eating) and don't do extraordinary levels of exercise then you cannot help but gain weight.

 

More importantly, unlike other diets, 80-10-10 doesn't involve (if done right) hunger or require willpower to deal with hunger.

Diet is just what you eat. We all have a diet, even if it involves a big mac 3 times a day.

A healthy diet doesn't have to involve being hungry, and as you say any diet that does will be difficult to maintain.

 

The fact that most calorie restriction diets most definitly do involve hunger and willpower, explains why so many fail on them.

Probably true.

 

The physiological effects of calories are obviously important, but, when it comes to success/failure of a diet, the psychological aspects of dealing with hunger/cravings/low will power are key. 80-10-10 addresses those issues by being a way of eating where hunger simply doesn't happen.

 

I'd like to see the explanation between eating 6k calories a day and losing weight.

[onewheeldave]

You brought up preventative medicine, and how you thought the NHS should focus on it. As if they'd never had this idea before and didn't already operate many preventative schemes where it's the cost effective thing to do.

When I point out that the idea isn't new (by asking you if you thought they hadn't thought of it already) you claim it's a strawman, and now you can't see the relevance of it.

The relevance is that they already do it. You're suggesting something that already happens as if it's a new idea.

 

No. Please quote me saying/suggesting that. If I want to say something, I'll say it clearly, and I know I've not said that.

 

I did clearly state that I feel the medical system should prioritise/focus on prevention- clearly they do not prioritise it- they focus most of their cash/resources on repairing ill people (or trying to).

 

---------- Post added 17-04-2014 at 15:21 ----------

 

Neither have I. I don't know what point you're trying to make.

Because it is. You've said several times that it's difficult to consume enough calories to maintain weight.

Which appears to contradict what you said earlier, and also makes no sense. If you eat 6000 calories a day (in fruit, he'd have to never stop eating) and don't do extraordinary levels of exercise then you cannot help but gain weight.

Diet is just what you eat. We all have a diet, even if it involves a big mac 3 times a day.

A healthy diet doesn't have to involve being hungry, and as you say any diet that does will be difficult to maintain.

Probably true.

 

I'd like to see the explanation between eating 6k calories a day and losing weight.

It does if the dieter is obese and trying to lose weight. (Unless they subsist off fruit 80-10-10 style, which diesn't involve hunger).

 

I've no idea how a person can eat 3-7,000 calories a day and remain ultra-lean. Zero idea, I've no explanation.

 

But, they do. I've been eating 80-10-10 now for 6 months- eating huge amounts every day and remaining at 11 stone. I don't ever wait for hunger, I carry food whereever I go.

 

For several months I aimed for 20 bananas a day and, logging them, achieved an average of 18.4. That's over 1,800 calories a day in bananas alone, plus the full-fat yoghurt and chocolate concoction I was eating most days, plus several wraps with a full romaine lettuce, copious amounts of more calorie-dense foods like dried fruits, and, other vegetables.

 

I don't know how/why it works, I just know it does, and, that I'm lean, fit, healthy and full of energy.

 

And personally, I don't care how it works- I'm sure at some point over the next 2 decades, someone will look into the science of it: it's of little interest to me, as my faith in orthodox medical science vanished along with that 2 stones of unwanted mass.

 

It works, that's the main thing, cos I know there's several million people who are obese in the world, who feel that conventional diets and orthodox medical system advice have failed them (or at least, that they don't work for them).

 

To those people, I say, here's a way to achieve the leanness and vitality you knew as children, and, you can eat as much (raw fruit and unprocessed vegetables) as you want, and then eat more.

[Waldo]

This seems like something that should be automated (with computers and databases) and any conflicts (incompatible meds etc) flagged up when a patient is prescribed new medicine.

[Cyclone]

No. Please quote me saying/suggesting that. If I want to say something, I'll say it clearly, and I know I've not said that.

Hence why I asked for clarification. To which you accused me of being off topic.

 

I did clearly state that I feel the medical system should prioritise/focus on prevention- clearly they do not prioritise it- they focus most of their cash/resources on repairing ill people (or trying to).

Simply not true, I suggest that you simply don't understand the constraints that they operate under, nor the effectiveness of what you are suggesting, whereas they do.

 

---------- Post added 17-04-2014 at 15:21 ----------

 

It does if the dieter is obese and trying to lose weight. (Unless they subsist off fruit 80-10-10 style, which diesn't involve hunger).

Only your magic diet doesn't involve hunger! I'm sure.

 

I've no idea how a person can eat 3-7,000 calories a day and remain ultra-lean. Zero idea, I've no explanation.

 

But, they do. I've been eating 80-10-10 now for 6 months- eating huge amounts every day and remaining at 11 stone. I don't ever wait for hunger, I carry food whereever I go.

Hopefully someone will investigate and explain how it works.

 

For several months I aimed for 20 bananas a day and, logging them, achieved an average of 18.4. That's over 1,800 calories a day in bananas alone, plus the full-fat yoghurt and chocolate concoction I was eating most days, plus several wraps with a full romaine lettuce, copious amounts of more calorie-dense foods like dried fruits, and, other vegetables.

 

I don't know how/why it works, I just know it does, and, that I'm lean, fit, healthy and full of energy.

 

And personally, I don't care how it works- I'm sure at some point over the next 2 decades, someone will look into the science of it: it's of little interest to me, as my faith in orthodox medical science vanished along with that 2 stones of unwanted mass.

I don't understand this.

You find a diet that works for you, it's not particularly incompatible with any existing medical science, but for some reason you've decided not to believe medical science and instead make up rubbish about your GP being bad for you. I don't see how this leap occurred.

 

It works, that's the main thing, cos I know there's several million people who are obese in the world, who feel that conventional diets and orthodox medical system advice have failed them (or at least, that they don't work for them).

They keep eating too much, the only thing that has failed them is their inability to stop eating (the wrong things). Medicine has never promised any magic cure to obesity.

 

To those people, I say, here's a way to achieve the leanness and vitality you knew as children, and, you can eat as much (raw fruit and unprocessed vegetables) as you want, and then eat more.

 

Yeah, except that they want to stuff their faces with burgers and pizza, that's why they're obese in the first place. That and never leaving the sofa.

[onewheeldave]

.

Only your magic diet doesn't involve hunger! I'm sure.

80-10-10 doesn't involve hunger. I've personally shed 2 stone and got no where near being hungry- lots of others on 80-10-10 have reported successfully getting from obesity to leanness without hunger.

 

A basic principle of 80-10-10 is that you must never go hungry (as most people with weight issues will end up binging on junk if they go hungry).

 

Standard advice is, if you're hungry, eat some fruit- as much as you want. Cravings/hunger are pretty powerless when you stuff your stomach with fruit/veg/unprocessed carbs.

 

So, yes, 80-10-10, do properly, cannot cause hunger.

 

---------- Post added 18-04-2014 at 11:53 ----------

 

I don't understand this.

You find a diet that works for you, it's not particularly incompatible with any existing medical science, but for some reason you've decided not to believe medical science and instead make up rubbish about your GP being bad for you. I don't see how this leap occurred..

 

It's 2 separate issues isn't it. I'm posting usefull info about 80-10-10 (primarily intended for people who may want to try it out).

 

The stuff about the medical service and GPs is a separate issue, and, I've posted my many reasons for holding that view, as well as pointing out that some qualified doctors have the same misgivings.

[El Cid]

The stuff about the medical service and GPs is a separate issue, and, I've posted my many reasons for holding that view, as well as pointing out that some qualified doctors have the same misgivings.

 

Its in the news today, that foreign doctors are almost twice as likely to be struck-off, the foreign doctor are less qualified when compared to the British doctors.

[onewheeldave]

They keep eating too much, the only thing that has failed them is their inability to stop eating (the wrong things). Medicine has never promised any magic cure to obesity.

 

Yeah, except that they want to stuff their faces with burgers and pizza, that's why they're obese in the first place. That and never leaving the sofa.

 

OK- so it looks like you have some contempt for victims of obesity. Personally I feel that most of them are stuck in a terrible situation which they can't get out of because for them, the standard medical advice is either not working, or, they lack the will-power necessary to follow the orthodox calorie deprivation diets.

 

I can relate to that, I have very weak willpower myself. It took me 10 years to successfully quit smoking- I couldn't get any the the standard methods and methods pushed by the NHS to work for me.

 

Then I stumbled across a method that specifically avoided use of willpower, and quit for good (14 years ago- the method was Allan Carrs 'Easyway'- rejected by the NHS, but, nevertheless, successfull for me and many thousands of others).

 

Same with weight loss- I've got very little willpower, I cannot stand going even slightly hungry.

 

Yet, with 80-10-10, I've achieved genuine leanness, easily, with zero hunger.

 

So I'm banking on the fact that, when it comes to obese individuals who really want to loss that weight, who similarly lack willpower and who similarly know that they will fail on any diet that involves hunger, that by now they're probably sick of following 'official' recommendations that don't work for them, that they may look into 80-10-10 and give it a go.

 

Cos, you know what? All the bleating/moaning from people like you, saying 'there's no evidence...the doctors aren't recommending this...etc, etc' very much fades into the background when I'm out enjoying being lean and all the side-benefits that come with it (consistent good energy levels, vitality, less illness etc).

 

---------- Post added 18-04-2014 at 12:09 ----------

 

Its in the news today, that foreign doctors are almost twice as likely to be struck-off, the foreign doctor are less qualified when compared to the British doctors.

 

And this relates to anything I've said? How?

[Cyclone]

Victims, what a ridiculous description. Obesity didn't sneak up and jump on them when they weren't looking. It's self inflicted in the vast majority of cases.

 

I think you've got yourself confused, there is evidence, I linked to some of it earlier. It's you that has a problem with searching out evidence and doesn't trust the scientific method. Nor have I tried to change your mind or suggest that you change your diet.

[onewheeldave]

Victims, what a ridiculous description. Obesity didn't sneak up and jump on them when they weren't looking. It's self inflicted in the vast majority of cases.

Yeah- I disagree.

 

But thanks dude, thanks for calling overweight/obese people lay, ill-disciplined and personally responsible for their condition- just makes them all the more likely that they'll give credence to my advice rather than the same-old, same-old that you're giving out: anything that encourages them to look into and try 80-10-10 (or plant strong etc) is good by me.

 

---------- Post added 19-04-2014 at 14:09 ----------

 

I think you've got yourself confused, there is evidence, I linked to some of it earlier.

 

Wish you'd read my posts rather than interpreting them into what you'd like me to have said

 

 

Cos, you know what? All the bleating/moaning from people like you, saying 'there's no evidence...the doctors aren't recommending this...etc, etc' very much fades into the background when I'm out enjoying being lean and all the side-benefits that come with it (consistent good energy levels, vitality, less illness etc).

 

 

What I was referring to is evidence for 80-10-10, your links were about plant-strong and processed meat.

 

It's you that has a problem with searching out evidence and doesn't trust the scientific method.

 

No- no problem- I sought out plenty of evidence before I realised that a high portion of 'scientific studies' were either inept or corrupt.

 

And I hold the scientific method as sacrosanct, I just wish it was evident in what passes for 'scientific studies' these days.

 

---------- Post added 19-04-2014 at 14:10 ----------

 

Nor have I tried to change your mind or suggest that you change your diet.

 

???

 

Good, I've not said you had.

[Cyclone]

Pretending they aren't personally responsible is just burying your head in the sand. Over eating and lack of exercise make you fat, not the will of the gods.

 

Perhaps I've not quite understood, is plant strong different to 80-10-10, I thought you were using the terms interchangeably earlier.

 

I don't see the inept or corrupt studies that you do.

 

I don't think we really disagree very much, apart from with your original statement about GPs, which you've done nothing to convince me of.