Obelix Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 How better control? Better fuel econmy? Perhaps 3-5 miles per gallon more with stick. Hardly signifcant considering all the mucking around changing gears and using an extra pedal. More reliable? How so? Service an automatic trans at manufacturere's recommended intervals and it will last 200 K miles at least. A clutch plate on the other hand is only as durable as the person's ability to shift properly It doesnt change gears at unexpected points which can upset the balance of a car, especially if you are mid corner and lift off the throttle. Engine braking is not easily possible on an auto either. As for reliability a box that only lasts 200k miles is a pile of crap - I'd expect a hell of a lot more than that from a gearbox and it'd not need it oil changing for the first 300k miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 It doesnt change gears at unexpected points which can upset the balance of a car, especially if you are mid corner and lift off the throttle. Engine braking is not easily possible on an auto either. As I said somewhere up there ^^^^^^^^^^^ I also said that automatics are for lazy drivers, and nothing has been said to convince me otherwise. I do see the need for disabled drivers to drive an automatic, but other than that nothing has convinced me of any benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megalithic Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I also said that automatics are for lazy drivers, Obviously i'm a naysayer when it comes to automatics, but lazy ? Surely the only difference is a less worked left leg ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 How better control? Better fuel econmy? Perhaps 3-5 miles per gallon more with stick. Hardly signifcant considering all the mucking around changing gears and using an extra pedal. More reliable? How so? Service an automatic trans at manufacturere's recommended intervals and it will last 200 K miles at least. A clutch plate on the other hand is only as durable as the person's ability to shift properly I believe in using cruise control whenever I can. It helps to keep the engine running at steady revs and saves gas. It also saves my right leg from locking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 It doesnt change gears at unexpected points which can upset the balance of a car, especially if you are mid corner and lift off the throttle. Engine braking is not easily possible on an auto either. As for reliability a box that only lasts 200k miles is a pile of crap - I'd expect a hell of a lot more than that from a gearbox and it'd not need it oil changing for the first 300k miles. I've had no problems whatsoever with auto trans which I"ve been using for decades. I've owned more cars and trucks than I can count in the last 44 years and the only one with a trans problem was a doofus that Ford turned out in the early 80s... a Tempo I bought for my wife. It had a small trans oil leak from day one that Ford couldnt fix but that Ford model was a bucket of bolts anyway. We all live and learn though ---------- Post added 01-05-2014 at 05:54 ---------- I believe in using cruise control whenever I can. It helps to keep the engine running at steady revs and saves gas. It also saves my right leg from locking up. I tend to have a lead foot. Cruise control comes in useful when out on the interstates. I set it at one mph below the max legal speed limit which saves me getting a ticket from the sneaky often well hidden highway patrol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 It doesnt change gears at unexpected points which can upset the balance of a car, especially if you are mid corner and lift off the throttle. Engine braking is not easily possible on an auto either. As for reliability a box that only lasts 200k miles is a pile of crap - I'd expect a hell of a lot more than that from a gearbox and it'd not need it oil changing for the first 300k miles. When was the last time you drove an auto and how modern was it, Obelix? I can tell you to the nearest 100RPM when our Merc is going upshift or downshift in drive/standard mode depending how hard I'm pressing the go-pedal at the time, and whilst I find engine braking (on ours at least, C220 CDI) indeed not as 'pronounced' as on a manual, it's there alright and perfectly useable in tip mode. FWIW, the engine braking on my Impreza manual is way worse (nearly inexistent) than on the auto Merc, because the Scooby AWD tranny assembly/interface (and gearing ratios) seems engineered essentially for gaining of, then conservation of, momentum. By contrast, I can come to a stop at the A57 Red Lion crossroads with the MX5 with engine braking only, in normal traffic and without inconveniencing following drivers. To my mind, it's never as simple as "auto good (or bad)"/"manual bad (or good)". Every car, whether auto or manual, has a driving feel to it, there is potentially as much of a requirement to adapt one's driving style and habits to a new/different car as there are cars. I drive all 3 of our cars (MX5 manual, Merc auto, Impreza manual) in substantially the same manner so far as road conditions, other road users, habits <etc.> are concerned, but each in a completely different style suited to the car power/handling/<etc.> characteristics: the MX5 manual is rev-happy and built to be be hooned around, the Merc auto is a plodding comfort cruiser, and the Impreza is a jack-of-all-trades. The MX5 makes for a very unconfortable long- or even medium-distance cruiser: the power's there just fine and it's weighty enough not to dance about on large/straight roads, but it's low, it's a hard ride, it's noisy and the driving position is ill-suited for driving hours on end. The Merc will easily oblige a bit of spirited driving, and corners surprisingly well when ragged a bit (which I put down to the FR layout and nose-heavy with the diesel plant) but neither the car size, weight and stance, nor the auto box are built for enjoying that much. The Scoob will do it all with ease, but as an N/A, you've got to work the gears and revs twice as much as the MX5 to make as much progress, to the extent where it gets to be too much like hard work. But it's low-gear gearbox position makes tailbacks far easier work than with the auto (!): put the gearbox in low, clutch the first in gently, let go of the clutch, and it will crawl at less than walking pace on flat up to low-gradient uphill roads idling at 500 RPM in near-total silence, much easier to live with than the Merc auto which has to be semi-permanently braked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 As I said somewhere up there ^^^^^^^^^^^ I also said that automatics are for lazy drivers, and nothing has been said to convince me otherwise. I do see the need for disabled drivers to drive an automatic, but other than that nothing has convinced me of any benefit. It's horses for courses. Autos are fantastic in city traffic for example and some people do want to drive with the minimum of effort true, again autos are good for that. There is really room for both kinds - I've got both types sat on my driveway. Given the choice though I'd plump for a manual if that was all that I could have. ---------- Post added 01-05-2014 at 10:07 ---------- When was the last time you drove an auto and how modern was it, Obelix? About an hour ago - BMW Z4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 About an hour ago - BMW Z4.You've got a 2-seater RWD roadster in auto? You're doing it wrong! As I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about your driving prowess ()...needed a reminder about why not to buy a Beemer auto, so thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 You've got a 2-seater RWD roadster in auto? You're doing it wrong! As I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about your driving prowess ()...needed a reminder about why not to buy a Beemer auto, so thanks! Its interesting I'll give you that. It's actually a loan from the dealer whilst my other one is in for serviceing. IT's not actually as bad as I was expecting - it goes like stink and it does have the change paddles but I still keep grabbing for the centre console to change regardless. It does still have the annoying change gear when you lift off in a corner - I know it's going to do it but it wont stop it from doing so... a manual box would be better for it for sure. Regular daily car is a 123D in manual and the other one is an E39 auto for France and long distance touring - although I keep looking at a 640D and thinking it would be so much fun.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Let me re-capture this whole discussion in one statement: Some people like automatics, some people don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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