Automatic v Stick Shift Vehicles

[mjw47]

It doesnt change gears at unexpected points which can upset the balance of a car, especially if you are mid corner and lift off the throttle. Engine braking is not easily possible on an auto either.

 

As for reliability a box that only lasts 200k miles is a pile of crap - I'd expect a hell of a lot more than that from a gearbox and it'd not need it oil changing for the first 300k miles.

 

May I ask what automatic vehicles you have driven?

 

As I pointed out earlier, I have been driving since 1965 and have driven in excess of 1.25 million miles in that time.

 

Over a million of those miles were driven using a manual gearbox.

 

For the past 16 years I have driven automatics and have no idea what you're on about, 'changing gear at unexpected points'.

 

It simply has never happened, automatics beat manuals all day long in my opinion, but that's exactly what it is, a matter of opinion.

 

As for not lasting 200,000 or 300,000 as I've never owned a car that has done more than 80,000 and would think that's fairly common unless you're a taxi driver.

 

---------- Post added 01-05-2014 at 10:22 ----------

 

Let me re-capture this whole discussion in one statement:

 

Some people like automatics, some people don't.

 

There's always one isn't there?

 

Coming along introducing common sense into the debate and spoiling it for everyone.

 

tzijstra I want you to have a long hard look at yourself, and reflect upon your actions, OK?

 

 

[tzijlstra]

May I ask what automatic vehicles you have driven?

 

As I pointed out earlier, I have been driving since 1965 and have driven in excess of 1.25 million miles in that time.

 

Over a million of those miles were driven using a manual gearbox.

 

For the past 16 years I have driven automatics and have no idea what you're on about, 'changing gear at unexpected points'.

 

It simply has never happened, automatics beat manuals all day long in my opinion, but that's exactly what it is, a matter of opinion.

 

As for not lasting 200,000 or 300,000 as I've never owned a car that has done more than 80,000 and would think that's fairly common unless you're a taxi driver.

 

---------- Post added 01-05-2014 at 10:22 ----------

 

 

There's always one isn't there?

 

Coming along introducing common sense into the debate and spoiling it for everyone.

 

tzijstra I want you to have a long hard look at yourself, and reflect upon your actions, OK?

 

 

 

Done!

 

 

I agree though, what Obelix says is completely unrecognisable. I have owned a 2004 V70 which had arguably the worst auto-box available in the higher end of the market and even that had no unexpected gear changes nor did it have any issues with engine breaking. What it did have was sloppy up-shifts which made it an uncomfortable experience at times.

 

The new series V70 is as smooth as butter though, the first gear is a bit short unless you really push it, but when you really push it you are doing over 30mph in a few seconds, so that is impractical and I would like to see them alter that a bit.

 

I have also driven the original Twingo (that for some reason was never sold here) with a 1.2 engine and auto box, that didn't have any issues. It was at times slightly hesitant to shift down, but it isn't expected to be a performance car.

 

Having said that, when I changed it for a 1.2 turbo manual (tuned) I can safely say I had most fun ever driving that. A tiny car with over 110 bhp, low on the road, short wheelbase? Hell yes! But on any journey over 30 km it was useless...

[Bonzo77]

Its interesting I'll give you that. It's actually a loan from the dealer whilst my other one is in for serviceing.

 

IT's not actually as bad as I was expecting - it goes like stink and it does have the change paddles but I still keep grabbing for the centre console to change regardless. It does still have the annoying change gear when you lift off in a corner - I know it's going to do it but it wont stop it from doing so... a manual box would be better for it for sure.

 

Regular daily car is a 123D in manual and the other one is an E39 auto for France and long distance touring - although I keep looking at a 640D and thinking it would be so much fun....

 

Doesn't it have the option to change between the quick shift system and fully automatic? Mine stays as a manual once you start using the quick shift.

[L00b]

<...>Having said that, when I changed it for a 1.2 turbo manual (tuned) I can safely say I had most fun ever driving that. A tiny car with over 110 bhp, low on the road, short wheelbase?

Off-topic, so apologies (though maybe a bit 'on-topic' still, if you observe the guy's manual shifting prowess - BEDROCK, watch and learn ), but I recently run into this and thought, on reading the above, that you might appreciate it.

 

So,

(Youtube vid, Nürburgring lapped by a 52bhp non-turbo diesel Citroën AX in 9:55 - yes, really), if you've never seen this or heard of it

[tzijlstra]

Off-topic, so apologies (though maybe a bit 'on-topic' still, if you observe the guy's manual shifting prowess - BEDROCK, watch and learn ), but I recently run into this and thought, on reading the above, that you might appreciate it.

 

So,

(Youtube vid, Nürburgring lapped by a 52bhp non-turbo diesel Citroën AX in 9:55 - yes, really), if you've never seen this or heard of it

 

Wow! That is... incredible. In an AX Hahaha!

 

I got the Twingo of a guy who imported them from France with the custom adaptations, it only cost 2000 euros more than the equivalent without fittings and it was seriously worth it. I sold it for just under the same price as I bought it for.

 

Unfortunately I never took it to a full track day, but it did see a Need for Speed event. I was thrown in the mini's class with loads of old bangers and had a great time. I wasn't the fastest (no experience at all) but a lot of the petrol-heads loved the car and that was enough for me. The guy that won drove a Ford Fiesta from 1984 with a completely rebuild powerhouse, he didn't know how many bhp he had but he knew it was quicker than a Porsche. We all thought he was bragging, until he beat a (stock) Porsche 944 in a straight-up drag.

[Cyclone]

I've driven a few automatics in Canada and the States as hire cars. I don't like them, and unless I had a very compelling reason I'd never choose to buy or use one.

[L00b]

I got the Twingo

My Mum had a Mk1 (1.2 manual, 55 or 60bhp one) years back (1996 or thereabouts).

 

I only drove it a few times, I remember it being poky(-ish) for a 1.2 but a screamer (RPM). Wasn't fond of it at all, though I was impressed with the internal room for the size, the neat backseat sliding thing also adjusting boot size, and the 'airiness' due to sheer acreage of windows and sunroof.

 

Gearbox was very imprecise, IIRC. Not 'floaty' as such, but badly gated (gates too close to one another) IMHO.

[geared]

For the past 16 years I have driven automatics and have no idea what you're on about, 'changing gear at unexpected points'.

 

Auto-boxes only tend to mis-behave when the fluid is shot and needs replacing, it's not life-long stuff and does require refreshing every now and then.

Many garages havn't got a clue about auto's tho, most don't even consider changing the fluid.

 

Even had a mechanic at Vauxhall claim their ATF fluid was 'special' 'never wore out' and 'doesn't ever need replacing'

 

Yea he was totally wrong :hihi:

[tzijlstra]

My Mum had a Mk1 (1.2 manual, 55 or 60bhp one) years back (1996 or thereabouts).

 

I only drove it a few times, I remember it being poky(-ish) for a 1.2 but a screamer (RPM). Wasn't fond of it at all, though I was impressed with the internal room for the size, the neat backseat sliding thing also adjusting boot size, and the 'airiness' due to sheer acreage of windows and sunroof.

 

Gearbox was very imprecise, IIRC. Not 'floaty' as such, but badly gated (gates too close to one another) IMHO.

 

The first one I had was a 2000 model, the second one I think 2004? The auto wasn't keen on high refs, I used to not go beyond 100 kph on the motorway unless overtaking, the tuned one was a monster though, wonderful turbo-whistle

 

Re. the gears, it took me a while to get used to, but I could shift gears almost as quick as the fellow in your Youtube video once I had, the clutch was nice and short but very responsive as well.

[L00b]

I've driven a few automatics in Canada and the States as hire cars. I don't like them <...>

I don't like the (normal, not top-end) cars you get to hire in Canada and the States - period

 

Admitedly it's been a while since I hired one (about 7 years), but they're still too soft/wobbly for my liking. Last one was a convertible Chevrolet something-or-other (not a 'high-end' one) and even though its chassis was (presumably-) suitably braced/reinforced as a ragtop, it had that typical 'marshmallowy' poise and feel underway. Urgh

 

Nothing I hate more in a car than even the tiniest amount of lateral suspension wobble.