tzijlstra Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 What I don't understand is why people are being punished, when the cuts haven't made the slightest bit of difference. Borrowing is up and if the costs are down where is all the extra money going? To pay for MPs' 11%? I presume you are saying this in jest? Or is your sense of scale so warped that you really don't understand this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotusflower Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Not really no... You are going to want that justifying of course - whilst the global recession cannot be laid at Labours feet, their utterly abysmal handling of it, and the decade of piddling money away to buy votes to prop up their elections can be. They didn't have much success there either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Well they ran out of money in the end didn't they. Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotusflower Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Well they ran out of money in the end didn't they. Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money after all... How did you do that? You'll be pulling rabbits out of hats next and performing the Indian rope trick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ladd Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Automatisation and, as you put it, computerisation (which is also just automatisation), has actually created jobs over the years. Outsourcing has actually created jobs over the years. The basis on which I can say that with some authority (aside from lecturing change management as a guest lecturer) is really simple: The automatisation process properly started in the 1980s, the working population at that time was considerably smaller than the working population is now. Not only that, it has actually considerably improved the quality of work being done and the quality of life of the working population on average. The only people who get hit with long-term unemployment in these processes are those that have never accepted that they needed to continue their professional development and banked on a job-for-life. I find yours a very interesting observation, although I have no evidence, on reflection, I suspect what you say is true. If, further automisation takes place in the way I quote above, do you envisage any shrinkage in jobs or further expansion? ---------- Post added 31-07-2014 at 13:39 ---------- What sort of jobs do you advertise in the jobcentre? How do those applicants compare (if you check) with applications from other sources? I work in service industries, cleaning catering, security etc. ( before anyone gets on the usual rant about low pay I have jobs that pay over £70,000 pa down to Minimum Wage the majority are full time a minority are part time, some are zero hours most are not.) Our sourcing of applicants is predominantly through the job centres, we use other forms of media including Facebook etc. We avoid agencies for reasons of cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Automatisation and, as you put it, computerisation (which is also just automatisation), has actually created jobs over the years. Outsourcing has actually created jobs over the years. The basis on which I can say that with some authority (aside from lecturing change management as a guest lecturer) is really simple: The automatisation process properly started in the 1980s, the working population at that time was considerably smaller than the working population is now. Not only that, it has actually considerably improved the quality of work being done and the quality of life of the working population on average. The only people who get hit with long-term unemployment in these processes are those that have never accepted that they needed to continue their professional development and banked on a job-for-life. Of course computerisation, automation and outsourcing has created jobs, it would be strange if it hadn't, but the point is, has it created as many jobs as it has displaced? And the answer to that is no, otherwise what is the point? I would dispute your assessment regarding the working population. Firstly the population has increased, creating work, but the eighties also saw the rise of the underclass / long-term unemployed, which is with us still. Please don't insult me by saying all these are people 'who don't want to work.' It's also wrong to say people who get hit are those who refuse to continue their professional development - chance would be a fine thing. Often professional development is a perk of being employed, or a very expensive lottery which isn't open to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Well they ran out of money in the end didn't they. Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money after all... So how come borrowing is up then, are you suggest the tories are socialists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bypassblade Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Only they ARE punishing the unemployed. http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27177767. Having to sign on everyday at those places is punishment. Unless things have changed massively there are hardly any jobs on the boards, some of those are made up, all held together by disinterested, and now overworked staff. If a jobcentre plus was worth it's salt it might be useful but I can't think of anyone who got a job as a result of going there. I never did when I was on the dole. Has anyone? Funnily enough when I was on front line at Woodhouse JC, I averaged 19 job placings a month so lots have got jobs through JCP. I keep trying to tell people though that now JCP don't want people to go to jobcentres, they want it all done though call centres & will get it like this, or over net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Tamudo Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 So how come borrowing is up then, are you suggest the tories are socialists? Are you a Socialist Mecky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penistone999 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Only they ARE punishing the unemployed. http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27177767. Having to sign on everyday at those places is punishment. Unless things have changed massively there are hardly any jobs on the boards, some of those are made up, all held together by disinterested, and now overworked staff. If a jobcentre plus was worth it's salt it might be useful but I can't think of anyone who got a job as a result of going there. I never did when I was on the dole. Has anyone? So the unemployed should get money but give nothing in return. ? I totally agree they should have to sign on every day . Personally id make people work for their giros . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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