Obelix Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 So how come borrowing is up then, are you suggest the tories are socialists? No I'm not suggesting anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 No I'm not suggesting anything. This little anomaly, (that the Tories, in office, are actually spending more than Labour ever did,) seems to be something that most Tories prefer to keep quiet about or sweep under the carpet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 The rest of us have to get up in the morning to work for our money, That isn't true. Vast sums of state currency that people receive come from various forms of unearned income, that people need not work for in order to receive. Inheritance for example. Increasingly common as a way of receiving income. Rent. Interest. State benefits, pensions, tax credits etc. Gifts. And for some, wages. Some people get paid a wage without doing any work. why shouldn't the unemployed have to get up to get their money. We are paying for them after all. They do, many conditions are tied to UK unemployment benefit. 'We' aren't paying for them. The unemployed largely pay for themselves - most pay taxes and many will have also paid NATIONAL INSURANCE and will pay NI in the future for seldom does a person remain unemployed for life - and those that do - aren't going to be claiming JSA for life. Vast amounts of money are wasted on means testing unemployment benefit, punishing the unemployed and providing pointless training for the unemployed. Whilst some people who could get work instantly are denied the help they need to get work. Unemployed people can't often get help with the training and the upfront payment of indirect regressive taxes to work. Many people who are unemployed could get work tomorrow, if they had legal permission to work by paying for the associated 'papers' one needs. Many people could get work if they were trained in something and then got their 'papers' entitling them to work. Work can be good, work can be bad, work can be productive, it can be pointless and of detriment to all involved. We shouldn't be forcing people to work for the sake of working, when there is nothing productive for them to do. It's idiotic to do that. Especially when we have people capable of doing productive work, wanting to work, and when such work would be of benefit to wider society and is in need of being done. We also have to consider that unemployment is a fact of life under the current system. Full employment does not exist, it cannot exist, it will not exist. Unemployment is here to stay, and it controlled to a large degree. We have structural unemployment. We need to deal with structural unemployment. We need to start working more intelligently, we can work less and do more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 This little anomaly, (that the Tories, in office, are actually spending more than Labour ever did,) seems to be something that most Tories prefer to keep quiet about or sweep under the carpet... Not really. I'm quite happy for it to be pointed out because it was never hidden in the first place. It's sadly an unfortunate consequence of Labours financial profligacy and no-one expected it to be solved overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Se7enhills Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 The use of Sanctions is appalling. IF you are in a place so deperate you have to go the the Job Centre, the pittance they give you should be sacrosanct for at least say, 3 months. In fact, IF you have worked for a long time prior to being dumped in the scrap bin, it should be something like 2/3rds of your previous 12 months average pay rate for 6 months till you find a suitable job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 So why are care homes, hotels and warehouses full of workers from across the globe? They are cheap to employ and willing to work in poor conditions for poor wages. Many will have their income topped up by tax credits. In work benefits are often much better to claim than out of work benefits, thus there is vast financial incentive for a single mother to work part time at minimum wage, whereas there is little/no incentive for a young single man to do so. Who is picking fruit at the moment? The jobs are there but being taken by foreigners because Brits don't like hard work, Brits don't want get caught in the trap of coming off benifits on a temporary basis and finding themselves skint while the system catches up (don't blame them for this) or something else. And this is for minimum wage(ish) work so they can't be under cutting the locals (which is the argument those in the building trade use). When it comes to picking the fruit, up until very recently different labour laws have applied and paying less than minimum wage to temporarily imported immigrant labour has been the order of the day. One could import some foreign nationals from certain countries to work on his inherited acres and pay them less than minimum wage, charge them for poor quality temporary accommodation and the imported workers were legally denied the ability to work elsewhere. Many larger landholders are talking about how they will replace the labour supply as they are no longer able to import Romaninans and Bulgarians seasonally to work the land so that the fruits of their labour (the temporarily imported human workers)could be reaped by the Lords of the land. Some are suggesting we bring in a new law so we can import different foreign nationals, some are suggesting we bus the urban unemployed to the fields and force the work for free under real threats of violence. Yet unemployed people are denied the right to plant fruit trees upon idle land for the benefit of themselves and their community, so that they may feed themselves healthily in the nation state they were often born in and most definitely reside in, and are tied to. If one born into the non landholding class is fortunate enough to obtain the tenure of an allotment, he cannot use it to plant an orchard. When it comes to picking fruit. Perhaps we should allow people to grow it in the first place, then they may pick it themselves! And the landholders with large orchards and fruit growing operations could increase their wages to attract workers and compete with other people growing food, instead of having the land and labour markets tilted massively in their favour by government, at great expense to the living standards of those who do not own UK land, who are primarily nationals of the UK but also those of many other countries too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Se7enhills Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Why do you hate people wh own some land so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Not really. I'm quite happy for it to be pointed out because it was never hidden in the first place. It's sadly an unfortunate consequence of Labours financial profligacy and no-one expected it to be solved overnight. Utter rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Utter rubbish. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to why you think that then...? and your reasoning behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 No I'm not suggesting anything. So if socialists spend other peoples' money how come the troies have borrowed more money from other people than the socialists did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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