Still wearing nappies at school.

[GLASGOWOODS]

I'm sure someone can post a link to this story on Sky news this morning.

 

Anyhow, the study/survey was regarding the amount of children attending school who don't know how to use a toilet properly. It seems teachers are having to wipe bottoms and change nappies.

 

The kids ages range from 4 to 15!!! And it seems kids from affluent families are the worst for it.

 

Must also point out that non of the children in the study have mental/physical disabilities.

[Mr Bloom]

I thought the whole way in which this non-story was portrayed including by teachers and so-called health professionals was disgraceful and showed a total lack of understanding and empathy and a total disregard and disrespect for parents of children with genuine medical problems and indeed for children and young people at school who suffer from incontinence.

 

I felt the so-called health professional who said children who were incontinent had no friends because they were smelly should resign as the bullying of children with incontinence is disgraceful and serves to worsen the problems and the same for the teacher who thought a miracle cure was only a case of training children for a couple of days. They are disgraces to their professions and a genuine insult to children and families and real professionals that work extremely hard to tackle these problems.

[GLASGOWOODS]

I thought the whole way in which this non-story was portrayed including by teachers and so-called health professionals was disgraceful and showed a total lack of understanding and empathy and a total disregard and disrespect for parents of children with genuine medical problems and indeed for children and young people at school who suffer from incontinence.

 

I felt the so-called health professional who said children who were incontinent had no friends because they were smelly should resign as the bullying of children with incontinence is disgraceful and serves to worsen the problems and the same for the teacher who thought a miracle cure was only a case of training children for a couple of days. They are disgraces to their professions and a genuine insult to children and families and real professionals that work extremely hard to tackle these problems.

 

It was a study of children who don't have medical issues. Unless I missed something?

[Mr Bloom]

It was a study of children who don't have medical issues. Unless I missed something?

 

It was portrayed in a totally insensitively manner for those that have genuine medical problems, which is my point. Are teachers qualified to tell the difference? I think not. Many families are too embarrassed to seek help for genuine medical problems causing constipation and soiling. Soiling is recognised by professionals as being directly related to being constipated in most cases, due to a whole host of often complex reasons. Accidents occur when the bowel/colon is blocked and then this 'overspill' happens as waste products have to find a way out and the child has absolutely no control of this. Those children who suffer from this terrible condition are often in fact the first children to be toilet trained so it is ironic they are 'tarred' with the brush of coming from 'lazy' families.

 

The totally simplistic views which the 'professionals' interviewed displayed demonstrated a harmful total lack of knowledge of the issues. Does that shake my faith in the SKY study? Hell it does.

 

Do you think teachers are stopping teaching their classes to go off and deal with incontinent children and accompany them to the toilet? Do you think SKY really does? Parents of children with genuine medical illness are being told that their children are not welcome in schools with a nappy on, up and down the country, as support staff are not available in sufficient numbers to deal with their medical problems. They are being discriminated against. I get a strong whiff of something and it's not from 'untrained' children.

[aliceBB]

There are two separate issues here.

 

One is the management of medically-related incontinence in children (which is rare and usually temporary in children in mainstream schools).

 

The other is the inability of a growing number of parents to ensure their children are toilet-trained before starting school. The latter is due to a number of causes, mainly gormlessness/laziness on the part of the parent.

 

We should perhaps adopt the French system where a child cannot take up his or her free nursery school place until they are able to take themselves to the toilet when they need to and sort themselves out when there. I au paired for a French mother and the nursery where they went was full of 2 and 3 year olds who could all do this. Most small girls are ready to be toilet trained soon after they are 2; most boys, by 2 and a half. It is not brain surgery, but requires patience, a willingness to stay at home for a few weeks if need be, and a sense of humour. Before disposable nappies were invented, children were toilet trained on average earlier, as washing cloth nappies was harder work than getting the child out of them. Now it seems it's easier to leave them in disposable nappies for longer.

 

It is not a teacher's job - or a teaching assistant's - to wipe bottoms or change nappies. If a child has a health problem which causes incontinence, their special needs should be managed by a care assistant, not a member of the teaching staff.

[Mr Bloom]

One is the management of medically-related incontinence in children (which is rare and usually temporary in children in mainstream schools).

 

No, it isn't. There are four children in my friend's class suffering from this. Also recovering from this is sometimes never possible and in most cases it is a matter of years to correct, with medical intervention, not 'a couple of days' as the 'professionals' interviewed on SKY suggest - they are an insult to professionals, children, and families alike.

 

 

We should perhaps adopt the French system where a child cannot take up his or her free nursery school place until they are able to take themselves to the toilet when they need to and sort themselves out when there.

 

Do you think a three year old child who has had an 'overspill' accident where excrement akin to hot chocolate in texture is all over their clothes, up their backs and they are also dealing with the trauma of this should be just left to their own devices? Or do you think because they have a medical problem that the school wish to wash their hands of, they should be denied a nursery place when the chances are that they will have to miss lots of school anyway with medical appointments?

[aliceBB]

No, it isn't. There are four children in my friend's class suffering from this. Also recovering from this is sometimes never possible and in most cases it is a matter of years to correct, with medical intervention, not 'a couple of days' as the 'professionals' interviewed on SKY suggest - they are an insult to professionals, children, and families alike.

You have misread my post. If there are children in mainstream schools with permanent incontinence then they should have a carer/SEN assistant who helps them cope. Four children in one class is a very high proportion. Perhaps they were all put in the same class so that the cost of auxiliary care could be shared - I have no idea. But it is nonetheless rare.

 

 

Do you think a three year old child who has had an 'overspill' accident where excrement akin to hot chocolate in texture is all over their clothes, up their backs and they are also dealing with the trauma of this should be just left to their own devices? Or do you think because they have a medical problem that the school wish to wash their hands of, they should be denied a nursery place when the chances are that they will have to miss lots of school anyway with medical appointments?

Obviously not. But do you think it is appropriate for the teacher to leave the rest of the class to go and give one child a shower and help him/her change their clothing? Apart from the fact that they lay themselves open (sadly) to sexual abuse claims (I joke not), it's an educational issue for the rest of the class. Either the parent needs to stay with them if they are prone to accidents, or their needs must be catered for by the LEA. But it is not a teacher's job to change nappies.

[DeathAxe]

They expect teachers to wipe kids bums now? What with all the Jimmying lately, I'm surprised that is allowed.

 

It shouldn't even be expected for them to do so.

[Looker]

As a Teaching Assistant myself, the nurseries I have worked in lately , all require 2 staff to attend a child with a toiletting accident. 1 to change the child and another to ensure the child is treated appropriately. While this is taking place, the unit is 2 staff down. Then problems do occur although the rest of staff are notified when a child has to be changed, so they can be more alert to any other problems that can occur. ie a child with behaviour difficulties in the unit.This still makes the work load extremely difficult especially when there are 60 children + in a room, obviously staff ratio to children does apply.

As a parent, I can remember toilet training my own children as a neccesity prior to starting school. Parents these days have got it easy not having to do this and just leave it up to the teaching staff. Obviously, there is lee way for children with learning difficulties and permanent incontinence. These days the number of children attending nursery with learning/behaviour difficulties have increased dramatically which is making the work of teaching children so much harder. Every child has to have the chance of education no matter what their problems are and the only way to combat these problems are to employ more staff which government cannot/will not, pay for.

[Mr Bloom]

You have misread my post. If there are children in mainstream schools with permanent incontinence then they should have a carer/SEN assistant who helps them cope. Four children in one class is a very high proportion. Perhaps they were all put in the same class so that the cost of auxiliary care could be shared - I have no idea. But it is nonetheless rare.

 

No, the children have not all been put together for support reasons. This is quite common. I'm afraid you are mistaken in thinking it is rare.

 

 

Obviously not. But do you think it is appropriate for the teacher to leave the rest of the class to go and give one child a shower and help him/her change their clothing? Apart from the fact that they lay themselves open (sadly) to sexual abuse claims (I joke not), it's an educational issue for the rest of the class. Either the parent needs to stay with them if they are prone to accidents, or their needs must be catered for by the LEA. But it is not a teacher's job to change nappies.

 

As I thought I made clear in my previous post, if SKY news and you think that teachers leave the class to tend to kids then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Children with special needs (including medical incontinence) have a right under the disability act to an education experience in line with their peers. The idea that parents should stay with them is inpractical in most cases and ridiculous. Yes, they should have a carer but in almost all cases, sadly, they do not.

 

---------- Post added 29-04-2014 at 14:40 ----------

 

As a Teaching Assistant myself, the nurseries I have worked in lately , all require 2 staff to attend a child with a toiletting accident. 1 to change the child and another to ensure the child is treated appropriately. While this is taking place, the unit is 2 staff down. Then problems do occur although the rest of staff are notified when a child has to be changed, so they can be more alert to any other problems that can occur. ie a child with behaviour difficulties in the unit.This still makes the work load extremely difficult especially when there are 60 children + in a room, obviously staff ratio to children does apply.

As a parent, I can remember toilet training my own children as a neccesity prior to starting school. Parents these days have got it easy not having to do this and just leave it up to the teaching staff. Obviously, there is lee way for children with learning difficulties and permanent incontinence. These days the number of children attending nursery with learning/behaviour difficulties have increased dramatically which is making the work of teaching children so much harder. Every child has to have the chance e of education no matter what their problems are and the only way to combat these problems are to employ more staff which government cannot/will not, pay for.

 

It sounds like your school has good procedures in place.

 

Check your school policy in all schools I know it is obligatory that children are toilet trained before they start. Being toilet trained is different to suffering from fecal incontinenance.

 

You are 100% correct that more staff need employing.