Gerry Adams arrested.

[cuttsie]

They were the Tasmanian Aborigines and my view of my country is a realistic one, as opposed to a romanticised version which never happened.

 

I'm sure the Irish will be devastated by the loss.

 

In your post at 66 you say that you are proud of being English.

 

Fair enough, but does that pride extend to all of England's history or just the nice bits?

 

For instance are you OK with the slave trade or are you only proud of Wilberforce's efforts to abolish it?

 

Are you proud of our record of invading other countries in search of treasure and our willingness to kill any objectors?

 

Or are you only proud of our eventual - sometimes forced - withdrawal from those countries and our now friendly relationship with them?

 

In other words do you 'cherry pick' the bits of our history that suit your perhaps slightly biased view, or are you prepared to accept it all?

 

This country has an absolutely fascinating history and I'm a 'warts and all' ( Cromwell ) man myself. How about you?

Cromwell to , I will leave it there as to answer your points will take all night.

As to me working in Ireland they need not lose any sleep as I have posted my experience in my horse thread.

Until I worked there I did not know that I was an Orange man or a prody? or an English bustard but who knows they may have been spot on.

[mjw47]

Cromwell to , I will leave it there as to answer your points will take all night.

As to me working in Ireland they need not lose any sleep as I have posted my experience in my horse thread.

Until I worked there I did not know that I was an Orange man or a prody? or an English bustard but who knows they may have been spot on.

 

Evasive aren't you?

 

What does 'Cromwell to' mean?

 

I referred to him simply because 'warts and all' is his expression, used when the artist asked him how he wanted his portrait painted.

Although I'm sure that you knew that already.

 

What part of Ireland was this because I've spent years over there and never had a problem?

 

You can't be an Orange man unless you are a member of the Orange order and as they are a bigoted bunch of backward looking knuckle draggers I assume you aren't one.

 

Also I noticed that you made no comment about Joan Connolly.

[cuttsie]

Evasive aren't you?

 

What does 'Cromwell to' mean?

 

I referred to him simply because 'warts and all' is his expression, used when the artist asked him how he wanted his portrait painted.

Although I'm sure that you knew that already.

 

What part of Ireland was this because I've spent years over there and never had a problem?

 

You can't be an Orange man unless you are a member of the Orange order and as they are a bigoted bunch of backward looking knuckle draggers I assume you aren't one.

 

Also I noticed that you made no comment about Joan Connolly.

Dungarven Waterford.

Why should I comment about Joan Connolly as that is a subject I know nothing about yet!

I also noticed that you made no comment about the German hierarchy that where made welcome in the Irish Republic when the rest Europe was being invaded by that Country.

[Harleyman]

Well as someone who has lived in Ireland, attended two schools there, and visits every year, that has not been my experience.Don't think you can point at the Americans regarding lack of knowledge of history given the average Englishman's grasp of the subject.

 

Ask most Englishmen how many wars England has had with the Dutch and what the outcome of those wars was and prepare for a blank look.

 

Well you're peeing against the wind old chap because the whole problem with Northern Ireland is that they cannot forget the past. Now if you lived and attended schools in Southern Ireland that might not be the case .

 

I dont see any reason or logic for a person living today to have any prejudices against others living today over events that happened in distant history althiough you seem to think this is normal behaviour. You mentioned Obama and his Kenyan ancestry for example.

 

Woud you be prejudiced against and have cause for dislike of a German living today for what his grandfather's generation did?

 

We need to move on and forget these things and deal with the problems that matter in the present world.

 

I've never been to Ireland either north or south but from what I've heard and read regarding the northern part leads me to believe that they're a bunch of backward numpties for the most part. Who gives a hang about religion any more and even more so why do so called Christians who worship the same Sky Pixie find belonging to different sects such a big cause to dominate their lives? I could understand it if it were a question of differing cultures, differing languages, diifering ethnics... but religion? :hihi:

 

In the matter of Americans there arent many anymore who are third of fourth generation who can trace their ancestry back to any one single race or country. Maybe old Plastic Paddy New Yorker Jimmy O'Shea has more Polish and Italian blood in him than Irish but he still likes to march down Broadway on St Patricks day, sing Danny Boy and convince himself he's a true son of Erin

 

Now take my three beautiful grand daughters . English, Irish, Norwegian, German, Polish, French-Canadian, Cherokee and Mexican blood in em all.

 

Maybe that's the way to go if there's ever to be any peace

 

---------- Post added 05-05-2014 at 21:31 ----------

 

Evasive aren't you?

 

What does 'Cromwell to' mean?

 

I referred to him simply because 'warts and all' is his expression, used when the artist asked him how he wanted his portrait painted.

Although I'm sure that you knew that already.

 

What part of Ireland was this because I've spent years over there and never had a problem?

 

You can't be an Orange man unless you are a member of the Orange order and as they are a bigoted bunch of backward looking knuckle draggers I assume you aren't one.

 

Also I noticed that you made no comment about Joan Connolly.

 

One side's as bad as t'other in N.I. They're just plain ignorant... the lot of them. I've no time for IRA bomb throwers or Orange pips who rant on about Popery and the Battle of the Boyne.

 

Being half Irish myself I find pride in who my own particular Irish ancestors were and that part of me is of the Ireland that matters, the land of poets, scholars and dreamers

[mjw47]

Dungarven Waterford.

Why should I comment about Joan Connolly as that is a subject I know nothing about yet!

I also noticed that you made no comment about the German hierarchy that where made welcome in the Irish Republic when the rest Europe was being invaded by that Country.

 

Well those Waterford people are a bit strange, mainly Viking apparently, 'Two All Ireland's and one Ambush' is the usual retort given to them.

 

Refers to the War of Independence and All Ireland Hurling finals, in case you wondered.

 

As for the Germans, up until it emerged after the War what the Germans had been up to with the Jews, the Irish had no particular problem with them, other than the fact that they were usually allies of the English.

 

Ever heard the expression ' My enemy's enemy is my friend?'

 

Stalin was Britain's friend and he was a bigger mass murderer and meglomaniac than Hitler.

 

De Valera was simply making the point that Ireland was an independent nation and no longer did Britain's bidding.

 

Despite which, more Irishmen from what is now the Republic joined the British army and fought against the Germans than did Northern Irishmen even allowing for the difference in population.

 

Those from what was then the Irish Free State won 8 VCs and 760 plus medals for valour upon the field of battle.

 

They lost several thousand in combat.

 

That's how the Irish do neutral, so you can take your complete ignorance and stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

---------- Post added 05-05-2014 at 23:55 ----------

 

Harleyman.

 

Only two men have ever called me a 'plastic paddy' to my face. Both retracted immediately when they saw my reaction.

 

Do me a personal favour and stop using the expression, because it wreaks of ignorance and bigotry.

 

As I've said previously, I think that despite our differences we would get on fine if we ever met, but not if you used that term to my face.

[Harleyman]

Well those Waterford people are a bit strange, mainly Viking apparently, 'Two All Ireland's and one Ambush' is the usual retort given to them.

 

Refers to the War of Independence and All Ireland Hurling finals, in case you wondered.

 

As for the Germans, up until it emerged after the War what the Germans had been up to with the Jews, the Irish had no particular problem with them, other than the fact that they were usually allies of the English.

 

Ever heard the expression ' My enemy's enemy is my friend?'

 

Stalin was Britain's friend and he was a bigger mass murderer and meglomaniac than Hitler.

 

De Valera was simply making the point that Ireland was an independent nation and no longer did Britain's bidding.

 

Despite which, more Irishmen from what is now the Republic joined the British army and fought against the Germans than did Northern Irishmen even allowing for the difference in population.

 

Those from what was then the Irish Free State won 8 VCs and 760 plus medals for valour upon the field of battle.

 

They lost several thousand in combat.

 

That's how the Irish do neutral, so you can take your complete ignorance and stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

---------- Post added 05-05-2014 at 23:55 ----------

 

Harleyman.

 

Only two men have ever called me a 'plastic paddy' to my face. Both retracted immediately when they saw my reaction.

 

Do me a personal favour and stop using the expression, because it wreaks of ignorance and bigotry.

 

As I've said previously, I think that despite our differences we would get on fine if we ever met, but not if you used that term to my face.

 

A plastic paddy is an American whose never been anywhere near the Brirish Isles, born and bred in America and had his head filled with a lot of fireside guff from his father who had also never been anywhere near the British Isles and his grandfather who was also full of fireside guff. Came over during the potato famine more than likely but the Irish name lasted down through the generations. That of course makes him a fully fledged Hibernian

 

I knew such a one. Told me the day that the IRA planted a bomb on the Horse Guards Parade which killed a lot of soldiers and horses that quote "well I do feel sorry for the horses anyway"

 

I didnt forget that crack and years later on the day 9/11 happened I saw him and replied "Welcome to the world of terrorism"

 

This idiot was about as Irish as Arnold Schwarzennegger. Yet I knew he used to hang out in Kelly's Tavern, Pasadena, sing rebel songs over a weak bottle of Budweiser suds and if a gent from NORAID came around with a collection box he'd be good for anything from a five spot to a 20 dollar bill depending on his state of sobriety at the time of course :hihi:

 

Yep! We have em here on the west coast but not anything like the swarm over t'other side of the land, the twits who supplied money for arms to the IRA... those people who planted bombs in the land of your birth and killed people in stores and shops. You are English I take it, carry a UK passport.

You might be half Irish like me but that doesnt make you an Irishman either.

 

The plastic paddy remark wasn't aimed at you nor was any personal offence or insult intended.

 

I had two Irish uncles who served with the RAF during WW2 incidentally.

 

Eamon de Valera was a dark horse. A documantray I saw years ago claimed on the day Roosevelt died he never sent condolences nor lowered the Irish flag as a mark of respect but it also said that he had the flag flying at half mast the day Hitler died. There was also some hair brained scheme afoot to land IRA members (trained in espionage in Germany) on British soil to carry out sabotage. De Valera might have thought that neutrality would have spared him occupation if the German forces had been succesful in invading England and Scotland but that wouldnt have lasted long. The Germans would have needed the use of the west coast of Ireland for their naval operations against the US and Hitler wouldnt have given a rat's ass for Irish neutrality

[janie48]

Cromwell to , I will leave it there as to answer your points will take all night.

As to me working in Ireland they need not lose any sleep as I have posted my experience in my horse thread.

Until I worked there I did not know that I was an Orange man or a prody? or an English bustard but who knows they may have been spot on.

Perhaps those you encountered thought you were arrogant, or got the impression you were anti-Irish.

When I was working in Scotland someone said to me rather insultingly "f off back to England, Sassanach"

That was only one person, but had there been more, I wouldn't have generalised the whole nation by it, like you seem to be doing.

 

Prejudices exist in every country. Until the 60s, like black people, the Irish didn't get a good welcome here by some of the English. Ever heard about those signs "No blacks, no Irish no dogs"?

[cuttsie]

Perhaps those you encountered thought you were arrogant, or got the impression you were anti-Irish.

When I was working in Scotland someone said to me rather insultingly "f off back to England, Sassanach"

That was only one person, but had there been more, I wouldn't have generalised the whole nation by it, like you seem to be doing.

 

Prejudices exist in every country. Until the 60s, like black people, the Irish didn't get a good welcome here by some of the English. Ever heard about those signs "No blacks, no Irish no dogs"?

I Worked with Irishmen from being 15 years old on building sites all over England ,Never had a problem some of them are life long friends.

It never entered my head that all those songs that some used to sing in the pubs[ I visited with them ]where any more than just folk or old Country songs.

 

When I at last worked in Ireland in the 60's I got the shock of my life to suddenly find that after a few drinks I was an English bustard etc this also happened at work as I have outlined in my thread "first day at at work and end up with an horse."

 

It did not change my attitude to the friends I have made over the years but it did make me vow to not go back to Ireland.

Maybe I was wrong as I know many Sheffield fishermen go across year after year and tell stories of the friendliness but I was in a tough working environment along with others who do not take insults lying down and to me it was not a pleasant experience .

 

Any way this thread is about the Adams arrest and not about any other incident that may have happened over the last fifty years so for it to be side tracked is a shame .

[mjw47]

Harleyman.

 

Unless those 'plastic paddy's' were part Cherokee they were not racially American were they?

 

In fact no matter how long their families had lived in the USA they were in fact exactly as American as you are.

 

That is legally, emotionally and faithfully American.

 

But not 'Native' of the land American.

 

Where you're born doesn't alter your DNA or racial characteristics.

 

JFK's grandparents emigrated to the US and all eight of his great grandparents were born in Ireland, he was Irish and also an American.

And some of those Americans that you refer to as plastic paddys may well be in the same position.

 

And no I'm not English and neither am I Irish, I can't be English I had an Irish mother and by exactly the same token I can't be Irish, I had an English father.

 

The situation is dealt with in The Oxford English Dictionary, 'Anglo-Irish someone with one English parent and one Irish parent.'

 

My passport is Irish I am a Republican, not in the IRA sense in the American, French, German and Irish political sense.

 

Possessing it once saved me £35- compared to a British passport - when crossing at the Avra checkpoint between Israel and Jordan.

 

I was born with joint nationality as indeed were you.

 

Unless American statute forbids it you could hold three passports!

 

That would confuse them at the Mexican border.

 

De Valera was an American citizen originally having been born in New York and that's all that saved him from the firing squad so I find that story hard to believe.

 

As for the British attitude of 'why didn't Ireland join with us to fight the foe' I find it hilarious in it's complete and utter ignorance or disregard of the history between the two nations.

 

It was only 89 years previously that Britain had committed genocide against the Irish nation by means of the non existent 'famine'.

 

Remember at the start of the war no one was aware of the Holocaust against the Jews.

It was originally just another one of those never ending European wars, in which the Irish had taken part on several sides ( Remember Fontenoy! ) over the century's.

[buck]

To make a comparison with what might have happened if Adams had been arrested and convicted. I would like to address 1916. Ireland had been seeking Home Rule for centuries. Finally, with Gladstone's help, a measure of it had been accomplished, and though far from being satisfied , the Irish people were helping in the Great War with many of its men in France. A bunch of Patriots started an armed action around the Post Office in Dublin, which was eventually put down by the British Army and the rebels caught and found guilty. Then perhaps the most stupid thing that Britain could do they did. They shot the ringleaders. From that moment to the Peace Process, Britain was the most hated country on earth to the Irish, not helped by the scourge of the Black and Tans. The uneasy peace of the moment would vanish in a moment if Adams was not spared. I too am a part of a very large Irish and Irish American family with many visits to and visits from by my people. Did Her Majesty visit and invite the President of Ireland in vain? It almost seems like it for the timing.