tzijlstra Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I keep seeing people harping on about the 'undemocratic nature' of the EU. Just to centralise that discussion, feel free to comment here. It might provide some insight in how the EU works which can't be a bad thing just before the elections. The coming EU elections are for the EU parliament. The Parliament represents the EU citizens and supervises the European Commission which has been appointed by the member states directly - the commission proposes new rules and law (initiated by the member states either through MEPs or through the national governments). The parliament has the ability to block new laws, decide on budgets and indirectly is the place where a lot of the decision making is done: The commission rarely puts a law to the parliament unless it knows it will pass. The often heard argument that the EU is "undemocratic" arises from a misunderstanding of how it works: The commission is appointed by the council which in turn is a representation of the member-states through their elected heads of state (in the UK's case David Cameron). So your vote in the UK decides who will sit in the EU council and thus who will sit in the EU commission, your vote in the EU decides who sits in the parliament. Failures to democratise the council and commission further have now resulted in a president of the council (who facilitates discussion between the heads of state, Herman van Rompuy) a president of the commission (Manuel Barroso) and a president of the Parliament (Schulz). Does your vote for the European Parliament matter? Yes - if you want the UK to have sensible representation in Europe than having the right people in the Parliament is worth voting for. Even if they are people who want to reform/leave the parliament: As long as we are in the EU it is relevant to maintain influence. ---------- Post added 02-05-2014 at 11:28 ---------- Just to add: One of the topics regarding the EU that a lot of people are focussing on is immigration: There is a growing body of MEPs that are aware of the concerns you have, there is legislation in the pipeline to change the way free movement of people works. Not voting in the upcoming election takes away your opportunity to support such legislation. This pressure for legislation isn't coming from UKIP, it is coming from the European Conservatives and Reformists and the European People's Party, the first is also represented by the Conservatives and the latter, unfortunately, isn't. It is also increasingly backed by the Liberals and Socialists (LibDem and Labour). Read up on the parties you can vote for and make an informed decision. Don't just waste your vote as a protest-vote for what is happening nationally, it is too valuable for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I keep seeing people harping on about the 'undemocratic nature' of the EU. Just to centralise that discussion, feel free to comment here. It might provide some insight in how the EU works which can't be a bad thing just before the elections. The coming EU elections are for the EU parliament. The Parliament represents the EU citizens and supervises the European Commission which has been appointed by the member states directly - the commission proposes new rules and law (initiated by the member states either through MEPs or through the national governments). The parliament has the ability to block new laws, decide on budgets and indirectly is the place where a lot of the decision making is done: The commission rarely puts a law to the parliament unless it knows it will pass. The often heard argument that the EU is "undemocratic" arises from a misunderstanding of how it works: The commission is appointed by the council which in turn is a representation of the member-states through their elected heads of state (in the UK's case David Cameron). So your vote in the UK decides who will sit in the EU council and thus who will sit in the EU commission, your vote in the EU decides who sits in the parliament. Failures to democratise the council and commission further have now resulted in a president of the council (who facilitates discussion between the heads of state, Herman van Rompuy) a president of the commission (Manuel Barroso) and a president of the Parliament (Schulz). Does your vote for the European Parliament matter? Yes - if you want the UK to have sensible representation in Europe than having the right people in the Parliament is worth voting for. Even if they are people who want to reform/leave the parliament: As long as we are in the EU it is relevant to maintain influence. ---------- Post added 02-05-2014 at 11:28 ---------- Just to add: One of the topics regarding the EU that a lot of people are focussing on is immigration: There is a growing body of MEPs that are aware of the concerns you have, there is legislation in the pipeline to change the way free movement of people works. Not voting in the upcoming election takes away your opportunity to support such legislation. This pressure for legislation isn't coming from UKIP, it is coming from the European Conservatives and Reformists and the European People's Party, the first is also represented by the Conservatives and the latter, unfortunately, isn't. It is also increasingly backed by the Liberals and Socialists (LibDem and Labour). Read up on the parties you can vote for and make an informed decision. Don't just waste your vote as a protest-vote for what is happening nationally, it is too valuable for that. What a load of tripe, democracy and the EU don't belong in the same sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 What a load of tripe, democracy and the EU don't belong in the same sentence. Thanks for your insightful and elaborate response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Thanks for your insightful and elaborate response. Pleased to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Thanks for your insightful and elaborate response. get over it (didn't you get the answers you wanted) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanava Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I keep seeing people harping on about the 'undemocratic nature' of the EU. Just to centralise that discussion, feel free to comment here. It might provide some insight in how the EU works which can't be a bad thing just before the elections. The coming EU elections are for the EU parliament. The Parliament represents the EU citizens and supervises the European Commission which has been appointed by the member states directly - the commission proposes new rules and law (initiated by the member states either through MEPs or through the national governments). The parliament has the ability to block new laws, decide on budgets and indirectly is the place where a lot of the decision making is done: The commission rarely puts a law to the parliament unless it knows it will pass. The often heard argument that the EU is "undemocratic" arises from a misunderstanding of how it works: The commission is appointed by the council which in turn is a representation of the member-states through their elected heads of state (in the UK's case David Cameron). So your vote in the UK decides who will sit in the EU council and thus who will sit in the EU commission, your vote in the EU decides who sits in the parliament. Failures to democratise the council and commission further have now resulted in a president of the council (who facilitates discussion between the heads of state, Herman van Rompuy) a president of the commission (Manuel Barroso) and a president of the Parliament (Schulz). Does your vote for the European Parliament matter? Yes - if you want the UK to have sensible representation in Europe than having the right people in the Parliament is worth voting for. Even if they are people who want to reform/leave the parliament: As long as we are in the EU it is relevant to maintain influence. ---------- Post added 02-05-2014 at 11:28 ---------- Just to add: One of the topics regarding the EU that a lot of people are focussing on is immigration: There is a growing body of MEPs that are aware of the concerns you have, there is legislation in the pipeline to change the way free movement of people works. Not voting in the upcoming election takes away your opportunity to support such legislation. This pressure for legislation isn't coming from UKIP, it is coming from the European Conservatives and Reformists and the European People's Party, the first is also represented by the Conservatives and the latter, unfortunately, isn't. It is also increasingly backed by the Liberals and Socialists (LibDem and Labour). Read up on the parties you can vote for and make an informed decision. Don't just waste your vote as a protest-vote for what is happening nationally, it is too valuable for that. Its not very democratic being given the right to vote in a representative, if I don't also have the democratic right to vote for no representative. I don't want to be represented in EU because I don't want to be in the EU. Therefor a vote for UKIP is the logical vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 get over it (didn't you get the answers you wanted) No, I got exactly the nonsense I expected from the usual one-line lot. ---------- Post added 02-05-2014 at 13:45 ---------- Its not very democratic being given the right to vote in a representative, if I don't also have the democratic right to vote for no representative. I don't want to be represented in EU because, I don't want to be in the EU. There a UKIP vote is the logical vote. Sorry.... So it isn't democratic to be able to vote? What is democracy then Ivanava? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 No, I got exactly the nonsense I expected from the usual one-line lot.what you see as nonsense others may not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Its not very democratic being given the right to vote in a representative, if I don't also have the democratic right to vote for no representative. I don't want to be represented in EU because I don't want to be in the EU. Therefor a vote for UKIP is the logical vote. You don't get the choice at the moment for the UK to not be in the EU, therefore you only have one option to not be in the EU - emigrate to somewhere that isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLASGOWOODS Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I don't know a great deal about how the European Union operates. I guess at some point I will read up on it. However, when I read stories about how the people of Cyprus had their bank accounts looted during the crash, it makes me think why the Union allowed it to happen. As far as I can see, it's one big gravy train. And the moving of their parliament once a month (or whatever) is just total nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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