I1L2T3 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 You ask the impossible because judging by your posts nothing will ever convince you that a problem exists. You judge wrong. As I stated above the system will never ever be perfect. The complexity of it can have unintended consequences and create the wrong incentives for some. I don't deny that some people will have a child to get certain benefits etc... What I am questioning is the scale of the problem described in the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanava Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 You judge wrong. As I stated above the system will never ever be perfect. The complexity of it can have unintended consequences and create the wrong incentives for some. I don't deny that some people will have a child to get certain benefits etc... What I am questioning is the scale of the problem described in the OP. No one knows the scale of the problem, but some people do know that there is a problem that need sorting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 No one knows the scale of the problem, but some people do know that there is a problem that need sorting. It should be easy to quantify if you think about it. Simply measure the take-up of benefits by parents of newborns. Profile their before and after employment status and look for patterns. Not one right-wing or left-wing think tank has published anything on this. My guess is that the mileage in this topic is almost purely political, the economic effects in general terms probably insignificant. Certainly nothing on the scale of the problems caused by the housing benefits bill for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo77 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If people are made to take responsibility then they will stop having kids they can't afford and that will not only reduce the welfare budget but also education, NHS, social services etc, etc. You said yourself that there needs to be a safety net. It's bound to be abused from time to time. I don't think the actual number of people who purposely have kids so they don't have to work is anything to worry about. Yes, in an ideal world it wouldn't happen at all, but that's impossible. ---------- Post added 06-05-2014 at 19:54 ---------- You ask the impossible because judging by your posts nothing will ever convince you that a problem exists. Good answer ---------- Post added 06-05-2014 at 19:55 ---------- No one knows the scale of the problem, but some people do know that there is a problem that need sorting. How would you suggest it is sorted then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanava Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 It should be easy to quantify if you think about it. Simply measure the take-up of benefits by parents of newborns. Profile their before and after employment status and look for patterns. Not one right-wing or left-wing think tank has published anything on this. My guess is that the mileage in this topic is almost purely political, the economic effects in general terms probably insignificant. Certainly nothing on the scale of the problems caused by the housing benefits bill for example. That's part of the same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 That's part of the same problem. The scale of the housing benefits bill is a response to high rental costs. I doubt that high rental costs are caused by unemployed people having children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanava Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 The scale of the housing benefits bill is a response to high rental costs. I doubt that high rental costs are caused by unemployed people having children. High rental costs are caused by increased demand which come from population expansion and the ability to pay which is comes from a government prepared to pay for peoples accommodation. The vast majority of people claiming housing benefits have children or don't work, so if the ones that don't work started to work and people on low incomes only had the children they can afford to support without government help, the housing benefits bill would fall significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 High rental costs are caused by increased demand which come from population expansion and the ability to pay which is comes from a government prepared to pay for peoples accommodation. The vast majority of people claiming housing benefits have children or don't work, so if the ones that don't work started to work and people on low incomes only had the children they can afford to support without government help, the housing benefits bill would fall significantly. Demand is part of what causes increased rents. The other bit of course is high house prices and in some parts of the country there is a house price bubble. Rents are connected to the purchase prices of property. Most new housing benefit claims come from people in work. Only 1 in 8 housing benefit claimants are on JSA. Housing benefit is available to pensioners - should they start working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanava Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Demand is part of what causes increased rents. The other bit of course is high house prices and in some parts of the country there is a house price bubble. Rents are connected to the purchase prices of property. Most new housing benefit claims come from people in work. Only 1 in 8 housing benefit claimants are on JSA. Housing benefit is available to pensioners - should they start working? And high house prices are cause by increased demand from an expanding population. Just because someone works doesn't mean they should have more children than they can afford to support. And the pensioners claiming housing benefits are likely the people that paid very little into the system throughout their life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 And high house prices are cause by increased demand from an expanding population. Just because someone works doesn't mean they should have more children than they can afford to support. And the pensioners claiming housing benefits are likely the people that paid very little into the system throughout their life. We're back to square one now. Where is the evidence that people are having children to claim benefits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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