Let's talk about the true cost of ageing

[tzijlstra]

What steps would you take to balance the population Tim?

 

That is a good question that is hard to answer, I know I wouldn't oppose immigration as it is currently the only way to boost the working population of the country.

 

On top of that there will have to be a growing awareness that pensions are no longer a given right from a certain age. I think we should (and probably will) move to a situation where a pension equals a disability compensation, where disability is re-defined as: not fit to work.

 

I also think the state needs to take private pension reform far more serious than it is doing and make saving up for your own pension a lot more attractive. The current system, frankly, is pathetic. If private pensions become more feasible than people can plan their own retirement without having to rely on a state pension that is increasingly unaffordable.

 

Final point, I am afraid, is that the budget and method of working with the elderly for the NHS has to be radically reviewed, we might well have to accept a form of insurance to ensure we can afford the care. Whether this insurance is private or state-run is up to the politicians. Drastic reform is, again, required though, not this nonsense about governance in the NHS that the current coalition is tinkering about with.

 

Assuming you understand my post which contained many errors, which I think I have now corrected.

 

I deal with students on a frequent basis

 

That will only be a short term problem before balancing its self out. I might be poorer during my old age but at least it will be more balanced for my kids and grand kids as long as government policy changes from one of population expansion to a more sustainable population.

 

It is a problem we will have to face either way, it is obvious we can not continue with the growth in global population that we are experiencing, this is an issue that needs to be addressed on a global level. In the medium term though, we need to take drastic steps to ensure we achieve fiscal sustainability despite this bubble we are experiencing.

[ivanava]

 

I deal with students on a frequent basis

Its been a while since I was called a student, but we can use this definition so I will take it as a compliment. A person who takes an interest in a particular subject:

 

It is a problem we will have to face either way, it is obvious we can not continue with the growth in global population that we are experiencing, this is an issue that needs to be addressed on a global level. In the medium term though, we need to take drastic steps to ensure we achieve fiscal sustainability despite this bubble we are experiencing.

 

I agree and think that sustainability will only be achieved when we accept that our living standards will have to fall, whilst the living standards in developing countries rises.

[rossyrooney]

Your point is moot, I already stated that public spending would be under increasing pressure - it is irrelevant what public sector workers get in terms of pensions, their jobs are increasingly unaffordable anyway.

 

 

 

Not sure why the 'but', it doesn't just make sense, it is inevitable. I presume you agree?

 

 

 

Obviously, but even then we would need such a long sustained period of growth to make a difference that it is unlikely to have a significant impact, what would have a significant impact is a complete crash in the economy on top of what we have just experienced, which some analysts are fairly sure is still in the pipeline.

 

Anything that can jeopardise the economy should be tackled as soon as possible.

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2014 at 12:11 ----------

 

 

There is no political colour that could have changed what we are facing. This is a purely demographic crash - the number of elderly is growing faster than the number of working people below them (ie in age) can support. The only thing that could and should have happened was that during the 80s-noughties this bubble should have been forecast (and was by many) and (very unpopular) alterations to policy should have been made then to begin and circumvent the issue at hand.

 

One thing that can and should be done is to stop the outrageous way large companies are getting away with paying holiday pay and pension contributions with these modern day contracts that they are tying workers to.

And someone soon is going to have to stand up to the conglomerates and demand that the tax they pay is in line with their obligations to the country and not a few quid to satisfy the authorities.

If you or I did it we we would be castigated as thieves, the day will arrive when we are actually going backwards on workers rights and that will be a sad day indeed.

[tzijlstra]

[/b][/i]

 

One thing that can and should be done is to stop the outrageous way large companies are getting away with paying holiday pay and pension contributions with these modern day contracts that they are tying workers to.

And someone soon is going to have to stand up to the conglomerates and demand that the tax they pay is in line with their obligations to the country and not a few quid to satisfy the authorities.

If you or I did it we we would be castigated as thieves, the day will arrive when we are actually going backwards on workers rights and that will be a sad day indeed.

 

I agree that this is a big problem (the tax-issue). This is why I am so annoyed that Cameron is blocking the introduction of the EU Financial Trade Tax which would see UK based banks actually contributing to the coffers, this could bring in 14 billion a year alone and might cover the cost of ageing, but Dave is worried he might upset his banking friends in Chipping Norton and see them move to another country.

 

This tax is how the Germans are seeking to resolve their pension-gap (and some other measures).

[Detetcive]

That expense can be cut by increasing the pension age, and cutting excessive public sector pensions. More money can be raised by getting the people on benefits into work.

 

...or even better by closing tax loopholes for the super rich and corporations and having a properly progressive tax system.

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2014 at 14:21 ----------

 

One of the biggest issues facing the budget of the UK is pensions.....

 

...and the cost of looking after more and more frail older people with fewer younger people to become paid carers and the disintegration of the extended family in white british culture.

[tzijlstra]

...or even better by closing tax loopholes for the super rich and corporations and having a properly progressive tax system.

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2014 at 14:21 ----------

 

 

...and the cost of looking after more and more frail older people with fewer younger people to become paid carers and the disintegration of the extended family in white british culture.

 

Yes, family care collapsing is a big issue, but it is oddly enough also beneficial, it forces more people into work which aids the economy. If we didn't have that we'd be even further up the Swanney.

 

I do agree though, in an ideal situation we'd have family structures to look after those that need it most.

[ivanava]

...or even better by closing tax loopholes for the super rich and corporations and having a properly progressive tax system.

 

Or as well as, do both.

 

...and the cost of looking after more and more frail older people with fewer younger people to become paid carers and the disintegration of the extended family in white british culture.

 

The rise in number of older workers is set to drive UK economy as the number of over 65's continuing to work rises.

[Fogey]

What public sector workers cost and spend isn't at all irrelevant because they are funded from the same pot of money that pensions are funded from, decrease one and you can increase the other.

 

Nope. Public sector workers are often paid less than their private sector counterparts, especially since much of what the public sector does is pretty specialist requiring specialist personnel. The pay is effectively topped up with pension contributions which public sector workers also contribute to out of their pay packet. Just having less public sector workers doesn't remove the need for the work they do. It just means that work has to be done by the private sector, who typically cost more if you genuinely purchase the same service. Private sector staff don't jump to it because you whined to your MP, they say 'we can do anything you want if you pay us for it'. Where it doesn't cost more you see situations like the problems we have in care homes. Also the more services go private the less say you will have through your elected representatives.

 

If you don't want public services then go ahead and push for it, but be careful what you wish for. Many that have called for the abolition of the public sector have found themselves going back to the state eventually because they fell on hard times.

[ivanava]

Nope. Public sector workers are often paid less than their private sector counterparts, especially since much of what the public sector does is pretty specialist requiring specialist personnel. The pay is effectively topped up with pension contributions which public sector workers also contribute to out of their pay packet. Just having less public sector workers doesn't remove the need for the work they do. It just means that work has to be done by the private sector, who typically cost more if you genuinely purchase the same service. Private sector staff don't jump to it because you whined to your MP, they say 'we can do anything you want if you pay us for it'. Where it doesn't cost more you see situations like the problems we have in care homes. Also the more services go private the less say you will have through your elected representatives.

 

If you don't want public services then go ahead and push for it, but be careful what you wish for. Many that have called for the abolition of the public sector have found themselves going back to the state eventually because they fell on hard times.

 

Been there and I know different, payed more for doing less work, hence the reason public sector jobs are in high demand. Everyone I know that works in the public sector have managed to easily absorb the work that others used to do before the cuts. And they are all paid more than their private sector counterparts and have more perks.

[Fogey]

Been there and I know different, payed more for doing less work, hence the reason public sector jobs are in high demand. Everyone I know that works in the public sector have managed to easily absorb the work that others used to do before the cuts. And they are all paid more than their private sector counterparts and have more perks.

 

Load of rubbish, try to remember the public sector includes the NHS, police, armed forces, fire services, various specialist workers including tax and accountancy, so on and so on. I've heard of and seen many move from the public sector to the private sector for more money and better treatment but I don't particularly recall anybody ever moving the other way, especially if they're some kind of specialist.