Has Farage been telling us porkies? Surely not..

[tzijlstra]

It is my opinion with my reasoning. Simply saying "nonsense argument" doesn't exactly pick apart my reasoning does it? Why don't you tell us why you disagree?

 

Because I do, it is that simple, so yes, it is opinion and I am entitled to make mine clear. Simple fact is, if you call LibDems dead in the water than the same goes for UKIP and we might as well just all start voting Labour/Tories again. No thanks, I'd rather have choice which incidentally is a big reason for me voting LibDem - proportional representation is a must to fairly reflect people's democratic wishes in parliament.

[Jonny5]

Farage is a career politician. Naturally he's telling porkies to further his own career and stay on the gravy train.

 

People who think that he is a straight talker, as many seem to, are incredibly naive.

 

This is a man who has been sat in the European Parliament and taking a decent wage & expenses out of that for the last 15 years.

[Zamo]

Because I do, it is that simple, so yes, it is opinion and I am entitled to make mine clear. Simple fact is, if you call LibDems dead in the water than the same goes for UKIP and we might as well just all start voting Labour/Tories again. No thanks, I'd rather have choice which incidentally is a big reason for me voting LibDem - proportional representation is a must to fairly reflect people's democratic wishes in parliament.

 

As I said, both UKIP and the Lib Dems are dead in the water in terms of ever winning the next general election. However, UKIP are still very much alive and kicking in terms of swinging the outcome. The Lib Dems are dead in the water on both counts.

 

I agree that PR is fairer way to reflect people's democractic wishes. It is a shame the the Tories duped the Lib Dem's into rushing into a referendum on AV instead of holding out for PR... the biggest mistake in the history of the party.

[tzijlstra]

As I said, both UKIP and the Lib Dems are dead in the water in terms of ever winning the next general election. However, UKIP are still very much alive and kicking in terms of swinging the outcome. The Lib Dems are dead in the water on both counts.

 

I agree that PR is fairer way to reflect people's democractic wishes. It is a shame the the Tories duped the Lib Dem's into rushing into a referendum on AV instead of holding out for PR... the biggest mistake in the history of the party.

 

No you didn't say that which I bolded, you are saying that now. And it really is a nonsense argument to say that a vote for UKIP somehow is more valid as a vote away from Tory/Labour than a vote for LibDem, I genuinely can't understand what your point is there as it just doesn't make any sense. Repeating it won't make it make more sense either.

 

Let's look at this in simple terms: LibDem already has seats in parliament, in councils. Voting in LibDem councillors/MPs where they have a chance is going to have a far greater impact than voting for UKIP hoping that there are enough people doing the same. At least with LibDem you have a fair idea of knowing where you will actually be able to keep a Labour/Tory MP out. With UKIP you are guessing and hoping.

 

So no, your point is completely irrelevant and in fact the reverse is true (as long as we have the pathetic first past the post system).

[Guest]

 

Let's look at this in simple terms: LibDem already has seats in parliament, in councils. Voting in LibDem councillors/MPs where they have a chance is going to have a far greater impact than voting for UKIP hoping that there are enough people doing the same. At least with LibDem you have a fair idea of knowing where you will actually be able to keep a Labour/Tory MP out. With UKIP you are guessing and hoping.

 

 

Libdems are too Europhile for me, and I don't agree with their stance on Trident and abolishing the House of Lords, but none of this matters locally at a council level. At local council level in Sheffield the Libdems are much more competent than the moronic Labour red tribe, so I will vote for them as I always do.

 

Its UKIP all the way for the European election though.

[El Cid]

 

I agree that PR is fairer way to reflect people's democractic wishes. It is a shame the the Tories duped the Lib Dem's into rushing into a referendum on AV instead of holding out for PR... the biggest mistake in the history of the party.

 

I agree, the main parties will keep forcing people to vote for extreme parties untill we get PR.

[Zamo]

No you didn't say that which I bolded, you are saying that now.

 

What I said was..

 

Neither UKIP or the Lib Dem's can win it.

 

Granted, it isn't word for word but most people would take it to mean the same thing!

 

And it really is a nonsense argument to say that a vote for UKIP somehow is more valid as a vote away from Tory/Labour than a vote for LibDem, I genuinely can't understand what your point is there as it just doesn't make any sense. Repeating it won't make it make more sense either.

 

Let's look at this in simple terms: LibDem already has seats in parliament, in councils. Voting in LibDem councillors/MPs where they have a chance is going to have a far greater impact than voting for UKIP hoping that there are enough people doing the same. At least with LibDem you have a fair idea of knowing where you will actually be able to keep a Labour/Tory MP out. With UKIP you are guessing and hoping.

 

So no, your point is completely irrelevant and in fact the reverse is true (as long as we have the pathetic first past the post system).

 

Let me try and clarify. What I am saying is that the swing vote currently resides in the UKIP camp and not the Lib Dem camp. It is the swing vote that the two main parties will be courting in the lead up to the general election and that means they will be courting UKIP supporters by adopting UKIP'esque policies. The more support sitting in the UKIP camp follow the EU elections (and the more it retains according to polls afterwards), the more the main parties will have to give ground to win. It doesn't matter whether it looks like UKIP will win no seats or 100 seats, the battle for the next general election is going to be held in UKIP land. Lib Dem voters and Lib Dem policies aren't going to factor.

[chalga]

 

 

 

It is the swing vote that the two main parties will be courting in the lead up to the general election and that means they will be courting UKIP supporters by adopting UKIP'esque policies.

 

So,no policies at all then.

[dosxuk]

As I said, both UKIP and the Lib Dems are dead in the water in terms of ever winning the next general election. However, UKIP are still very much alive and kicking in terms of swinging the outcome. The Lib Dems are dead in the water on both counts.

 

And yet oddly, under the current voting intention polls, the Lib Dem's would get around 10 seats and UKIP, er, none.

 

The Lib Dems have several safe seats where a swing of several percent would be needed to even bring another party close to taking the seat. UKIP are mostly taking votes off the Tories, but not in anywhere near enough numbers to actually positively take any seats right now.

 

I personally expect they'll win one, or if they're really lucky, two seats at Westminster. I doubt either of those seats will be won by Farage, who will put himself forward for a symbolic, but virtually impossible to win, constituency like last time (I don't actually think Farage wants to be in Westminster, as it would open the party to too much scrutiny and responsibility, UKIP works better as a protest movement than a representational body).

[L00b]

(I don't actually think Farage wants to be in Westminster, as it would open the party to too much scrutiny and responsibility, UKIP works better as a protest movement than a representational body).

I've said it before, and I'll say it again in due course when it self-verifies, that Farage is using the exact same modus operandi as LePen (JM, with Marine having now taken the family business over and doing just more of the same) to keep himself in the far-far-faaar-less-scrutinised pay of the EU Parliament, and just peddle political influence ad hoc.

 

LePen has been an MEP for around 20 years, and whenever the FN has been in danger of getting a député (MP) or a few, never mind a bit "too high" a voting score in the first round of Presidential elections, he's come out in the nick of time with some self-torpedoing humdinger to reset the party's popularity clock. My prediction is that Farage will do exactly the same. You just watch.

 

There are no political or ethical convictions, and certainly no-one there who wants to get on the hotseat, pull sleeves up and muck in. Just a career politician who's opportunistically exploiting a populist bandwagon.