The Sunday Times "Rich List"

[Anna B]

The tories are not split. They might not agree, but they haven't dissolved to infighting or formed a new party.

 

Would we even hear of it if they had?

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2017 at 16:31 ----------

 

Cyclone asks a pertinent question – how can we capture true and meaningful statistics in order to analyse and respond to social need? Just how do we factor in such aspects as Teresa May's 8% cut in state education and the further demoralisation of exhausted teachers? How do we include a devastated NHS and its intolerable internal stresses that are leaving front-line staff utterly bereft of hope as they try to maintain services, services still facing yet more deep funding cuts if the tories retain power on June 8? How can we begin to calculate the untold stress on families with loved ones in need of social support as the care system creaks towards collapse? How much do these appalling factors cost ordinary families in time, emotional strain, financially?

 

The Office for National Statistics stresses that their latest figures show that “household incomes are above their pre-downturn peak overall, but not everyone is better off. While retired households’ incomes have soared in recent years, non-retired households still have less money, on average, than before the crash.”

 

So, the median family can afford one medium latte at Costa per day more than they could before the 2007 financial scandal – and they will have to share it. Hardly a ringing endorsement of tory/coalition policy. And we must not forget that the median figure does not represent the poorest in our communities.

 

Meanwhile the richest families will each have to do with one less medium latte per day this year when compared with last year's figures – they will not be needing to sell their Range Rovers any time soon methinks!

 

I think we're all worse off with the closure of Libraries, leisure centres, children's play schemes, respite care centres, etc. And it's also these things which bring a community together, and you can't put a price on that.

[apelike]

Would we even hear of it if they had?

 

With the other parties we did, so why not here.

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2017 at 16:31 ----------

 

I think we're all worse off with the closure of Libraries, leisure centres, children's play schemes, respite care centres, etc. And it's also these things which bring a community together, and you can't put a price on that.

 

I think the problem is that there is now very little in the way of actual community and what there is is mainly held on to by the older generation. The younger generation now see Facebook as their community where they have hundreds of virtual friends who they hardy or may have never met.

[Staunton]

I think the problem is that there is now very little in the way of actual community and what there is is mainly held on to by the older generation. The younger generation now see Facebook as their community where they have hundreds of virtual friends who they hardy or may have never met.

 

apelike is right to be concerned!

 

As Bloomberg reports: "the most coveted employee in Silicon Valley today is not a software engineer. It is a mathematician," says Glenn Kelman, chief executive officer of online real estate brokerage Redfin. "The mathematicians are trying to tickle your fancy long enough to see one more ad."

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-04-14/this-tech-bubble-is-different

 

And just like the corporate food and drink manufacturers who insist that education rather than regulation is the way to beat obesity, our schools are similarly expected to guide children through the dangers of the digital environment. How can we hope that our children can possibly be helped to withstand the temptations of cyberspace when the multinationals are spending $billions in advertising? All this when even traditional subjects are being cut from the curriculum in order to focus on the core testables, within a league table mentality forced on schools, together with the vicious attack on school budgets.

 

School spending in Sheffield amounts to approximately £5000 per child per year. Therefore, if a family has just one child at a state school then they lose £400 in service value, two children and they lose £800 per annum. Median disposable income for the poorest fifth of households rose by £700 according to Office for National Statistics figures during the last year for which data is available, so if such a family has two children then Justine Greening's cuts to the education budget alone is set to take more from that family than their year's financial gains.

 

With her vicious assault on the state education budget, Justine Greening has declared war on our children.

 

If you have children, grandchildren, nephews, nieces, children next door or on your street who go to state school, then please think about them and their needs on 8 June.

[Cyclone]

Cyclone asks a pertinent question – how can we capture true and meaningful statistics in order to analyse and respond to social need? Just how do we factor in such aspects as Teresa May's 8% cut in state education and the further demoralisation of exhausted teachers? How do we include a devastated NHS and its intolerable internal stresses that are leaving front-line staff utterly bereft of hope as they try to maintain services, services still facing yet more deep funding cuts if the tories retain power on June 8? How can we begin to calculate the untold stress on families with loved ones in need of social support as the care system creaks towards collapse? How much do these appalling factors cost ordinary families in time, emotional strain, financially?

These things are not a measure of income or wealth inequality are they?

 

The Office for National Statistics stresses that their latest figures show that “household incomes are above their pre-downturn peak overall, but not everyone is better off. While retired households’ incomes have soared in recent years, non-retired households still have less money, on average, than before the crash.”

 

So, the median family can afford one medium latte at Costa per day more than they could before the 2007 financial scandal – and they will have to share it. Hardly a ringing endorsement of tory/coalition policy. And we must not forget that the median figure does not represent the poorest in our communities.

 

Meanwhile the richest families will each have to do with one less medium latte per day this year when compared with last year's figures – they will not be needing to sell their Range Rovers any time soon methinks!

Despite the emotive language used, if it's income we're talking about this would be a very slight narrowing of the top to the middle you've described.

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2017 at 08:10 ----------

 

I think the problem is that there is now very little in the way of actual community and what there is is mainly held on to by the older generation. The younger generation now see Facebook as their community where they have hundreds of virtual friends who they hardy or may have never met.

 

Perhaps you should actually check in with a younger person rather than just guessing...

[Staunton]

Income is indeed the theme, but as we have seen with higher education, what were once services delivered to all by the state (allowing ordinary people to go to university) have been marketised, and the result is debt. Students are now leaving university with enormous debts, and this unarguably has a direct impact on income.

 

The conservatives believe in privatisation, marketisation and debt. They also believe in reducing taxes for the rich as George Osborne's massive budgetary transfer of wealth from low and middle income families to the wealthiest that came into effect last month so shockingly demonstrates.

 

The tories are out to ensure that the rich get richer, and they are attacking public services, the schools that most families send their children to, the NHS hospitals that most people rely upon, the social care upon which so many elderly people depend.

 

Do you believe that our children should each suffer an 8% reduction in their education? This question should be at the forefront of our mind on June 8, and it gives an indication of things to come should the conservative party retain power.

[truman]

Income is indeed the theme, but as we have seen with higher education, what were once services delivered to all by the state (allowing ordinary people to go to university) .

 

Should we go back to the times when only 5-10% of kids went to uni?

[Cyclone]

Student debt does have an impact on income, presumably it's possible to incorporate that into any numerical model you wish to use to demonstrate income inequality... Which would then give us something objective to talk about.

[Staunton]

Should we go back to the times when only 5-10% of kids went to uni?

 

That's how it used to be, but now more and more ordinary people have chosen to access higher education and the tories don't like that. So they have put enormous financial barriers in the way. Young people from ordinary backgrounds today face debts of mortgage proportions. It is a war on the poor. Simultaneously the target mentality forced on higher education institutions is undermining the HE curriculum and reducing the quality of teaching across the sector. Class sizes at university have grown as the costs to students have risen, meaning that young people today do not enjoy the rigorous learning experience that was once the standard.

[truman]

That's how it used to be, but now more and more ordinary people have chosen to access higher education and the tories don't like that. So they have put enormous financial barriers in the way. Young people from ordinary backgrounds today face debts of mortgage proportions. It is a war on the poor. Simultaneously the target mentality forced on higher education institutions is undermining the HE curriculum and reducing the quality of teaching across the sector. Class sizes at university have grown as the costs to students have risen, meaning that young people today do not enjoy the rigorous learning experience that was once the standard.

 

What did Labour do to remove those barriers in their 13 years in charge? In fact didn't Labour bring tuition fees and student loans in ..?

[Cyclone]

That's how it used to be, but now more and more ordinary people have chosen to access higher education and the tories don't like that. So they have put enormous financial barriers in the way. Young people from ordinary backgrounds today face debts of mortgage proportions. It is a war on the poor. Simultaneously the target mentality forced on higher education institutions is undermining the HE curriculum and reducing the quality of teaching across the sector. Class sizes at university have grown as the costs to students have risen, meaning that young people today do not enjoy the rigorous learning experience that was once the standard.

 

It's not that "they have put", if students don't pay for the education, then the country has to. There is no bottomless well of money to pay for things, although I suspect that education is well worth spending state money on.

 

It's also not contrary to conservative values to have a well educated work force.