The Conservative Party - all discussion here please.

[Mister M]

Whatever size it is, it's massively overpopulated. Population should only really be about 3 million by rights, at the moment it's rapidly approaching 100 million. We are in serious trouble if there is ever any kind of world problem that prevents imported food from reaching these shores.

 

When was the last time the UK had a population of 3 million?

[Happ Hazzard]

3 million would give everyone plenty of space, you wouldn't have all the social problems that we have today that are largely caused by people living in such close proximity to each other. Families could have homesteads and be self-sufficient, grow their own crops, raise livestock and barter with friendly neighbours.

[ECCOnoob]

3 million would give everyone plenty of space, you wouldn't have all the social problems that we have today that are largely caused by people living in such close proximity to each other. Families could have homesteads and be self-sufficient, grow their own crops, raise livestock and barter with friendly neighbours.

 

Good god have you been watching the Good Life or something?

 

Have you actually stopped to think for one tiny second whether most people have the skills, time, ability or even WANT to do such things as growing their own crops, raising livestock and living in this self sufficient utopia.

 

Social problems are created by human mentality not living arrangements. Plenty of space will mean bugger all difference.

 

Whatever status of society humans will be humans. SOME people will always want more than others. SOME people will always work harder than others. SOME people would end up with more crops than others and would be with two options. Feed the hungry or lock the harvest away for themselves. SOME people are serial breeders. SOME people dont want or cant have children.

 

SOME people are practically gifted and can turn their hands to fix anything. However, they are academically useless and can barely put 2+2 together. Others are academics who have vast knowledge in science/medicine/law/mathematics but cant even knock a nail into a wall.

 

How does this cornucopia of human ability and psychology fit into your 94,060 square mile self sufficient pasture utopia.

 

---------- Post added 18-11-2014 at 00:17 ----------

 

When was the last time the UK had a population of 3 million?

 

Well from first UK census published in 1801 population was around 10.5 million. Even in little old Ireland was over 5 million.

 

Maybe he wants to go back to 800BC when the entire worlds population was a nicely spread out 3.5 million.

Edited November 18, 2014 by ECCOnoob

[LeMaquis]

3 million would give everyone plenty of space, you wouldn't have all the social problems that we have today that are largely caused by people living in such close proximity to each other. Families could have homesteads and be self-sufficient, grow their own crops, raise livestock and barter with friendly neighbours.

 

Aye, lad, T' bloody good old days when we still lived up trees and defecated while standing up. No bloody need either for fancy schools and hospitals. We all died at 22 but we were happy.

[alchresearch]

When was the last time the UK had a population of 3 million?

 

Pre-Black Death I think, back in the 1300s.

[martok]

Social problems are created by human mentality not living arrangements. Plenty of space will mean bugger all difference.

 

 

And population density amplifies them, more space for everyone would make it easier to avoid the social problems caused by others.

[Mecky]

And population density amplifies them, more space for everyone would make it easier to avoid the social problems caused by others.

 

Why would it, are you suggesting wars didn't happen when there were less people?

 

---------- Post added 21-11-2014 at 07:39 ----------

 

This seems to have slipped by most press for some reason ...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30113312

 

So basically Hunt doesn't know what he's doing, well, it wouldn't be the first time would it? Leadership comes from the top so no wonder the education system is in such a mess. And no, making exams tricksy through finicky marking does not encourage pupils to try harder, it causes resentment and teaches people to throw-in the towel and hate you

 

---------- Post added 23-11-2014 at 07:16 ----------

 

And another thing right, "Big Society?" "Big Brother" more like. The tories are trying to wangle this one gently, almost apologetically despite the fact they've been doing it since 2010. Here's the latest from the Snoopers' Charter we are continually being drip-fed to try and make it publicly acceptable. Something we all know is going to be abused.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30166477

 

---------- Post added 25-11-2014 at 06:30 ----------

 

A leopard never changes its spots http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30188899

 

---------- Post added 26-11-2014 at 17:24 ----------

 

This is from someone else but I agree with a lot which has been said. I've tried to edit it for swearing, other than that it remains as posted:

 

----

 

Guardian writer Jack Monroe is now firmly in the sights of the Tories and there most hate filled propaganda rag The Daily Mail for daring to suggest that the Prime Minister used "stories about his dead son" in order to sell off the NHS "to his friends, and gain political points with the public".

 

Before we address the right and wrongs of all that, we have to realise that The Daily Mail came a major cropper last week when they thought they had seized upon the chance to make poor old down trodden long suffering multi millionaire girl nextdoor Myleene Klass the new Tory poster girl, after they reported how she washed the floor with Ed Miliband and fought so ferociously for all those millionaires hiding behind their mansion doors, dreading the postman walking down their private driveways to deliver the mansion tax, on ITVs The Agenda.

 

Unfortunately the majority of the public did not share The Daily Mails Vision of Myleene the poor little match girl and her fight for justice. Many who saw the programme or seeked it out on the net realised she did not wipe the floor with Ed with her brilliantly sharp political mind !! She just shouted nonsense over him, would not let him reply and flung her arms around a lot. In fact she came a across as not doing her homework on the subject matter and was rude and selfserving, and then moved on to be completely ignorant with her rant about 2 million pounds barely buying a rundown garage !! Truly a woman who knows the cost of everything and the value of nothingn , which includes ordinary people paying a tax especially created for them by the Tories!! A tax that she or her family will never ever have to pay.

 

I wonder if we asked a million families if they would prefer to be in the position of either having to pay the 15 pound Bedroom Tax , or the 500 Pound Mansion Tax , which one they would choose ?

 

Anyway as most of the public vented on Myleene and her pompous and annoying outburst, and labour Polls went up another 2% a few days later The Daily Mail scrapped plans to make Myleene the face of the people, realising she was now a lost cause as most of the public goes, and so they set their sights on bringing down a girl on the left of politics, because all The Daily Mail really is, is a hate spewing rag that likes to utterly destroy lives and if it can not do that, then to destroy their reputations or their families reputation will do.The Daily Mail is toxic, and is owned by a tax avoiding Tory donating, nazi who loaths and despises just about everything that crawls on the face of the earth. So it comes as no surprise that it is the biggest turd floating around in the toilet of the British press along with New internationals rags. What is surprising is somebody somewhere is buying this filthy rag and reading it's utter dribble and s*** that must get all over their fingers by the time they have finished reading about who The Mail hates this week.

 

So Jack Monroe is to be the lefts fall girl for the way the beastly public treated princess Myleene, and when Jack tweeted the comment about David Cameron and his use of his late son Ivan to manipulate the NHS and score political points with a sympathy vote, The Mail and the Tories have jumped all over it and add to the mix that Jacks a lesbian and was a single mother, they have all the ammo they need.

 

I often disagree with some of the things that Miss Monroe has written and other I have agreed totally on and unfortunately I TOTALY AGREE WITH JACK MONROE ON THIS ONE while the Mail and the Tories asks the country, how dare she use the prime ministers late son in a political argument and are already denouncing her as Satan, and as sainsbury drop her from their books and the Tories gather around to give her a good kick in on behalf of Myleene, they all seem to forget that the couple who have exploited the sad death of Ivan the most, is his own parents, and they have done this every single year since he passed, and David Cameron uses Ivan in his political speeches because he knows it would be political suicide should somebody stand up and call him a hypocrite and a liar, but that my friends is what he most certainly is.

 

First of all I would like to say that I have no doubt that Ivan's passing was a terrible tragedy for both of his parents. I saw a photo of Samantha a couple of days after, and she looked a broken woman. I have no time for the idiots that post stupid ignorant comments on this subject, it says more about you than it does about them and you really are kind of scummy for saying it, grief and loss is not a respecter of class or wealth

 

However Jack Monroe is totally correct when she said that David Cameron has used the tragedy in his politics and to emotionally blackmail people. Even before the election he used the fact that he had a severely disabled son to win the disabled community and their carers support, telling them that he personally knew of their struggles and fears and he " would never do anything to hurt the disabled community " for that was the biggest betrayal of any serving Prime Minister !! He totally and without flinching destroyed the lives of millions of disabled children and their carers. David Cameron has dragged the disabled back to the dark ages! He allowed Atos to humiliate them, he allowed the DWP to label them all as mostly being scroungers, he sacked them from their remploy jobs and then he taxed their bedrooms and cut their benefits, that one act alone showed us what Cameron was all about. Over a million registered disabled people now work in remedial jobs for wealthy corporations on zero wages.

 

The other now annual outing that David and Samantha treat us to is the yearly Tory conference, where every single year he speaks in length about Ivan and those wonderful nurses who looked after him, but who are not worth a 1% across the board rise this year, and then when the BBC cameras are in position he talks about Ivan's death and on Que every year the camera pans to where Samantha is sitting dabbing her eyes, he then beckons her on to the stage and a misty eyed Tory conference is on its feet and clapping their hands until they bleed, but sadly no mention of the children and adults that have died as a direct cause of David Camerons policies that have left even those dying riddled of cancer at the mercy of food banks.

 

Jack Monroe was right to bring up David Camerons hypocrisy when it come to how private he wants this matter to be, He can not use the tradgedy for his own political gain and to build an image for himself around his own personal loss. If the Camerons had set the rules in the beginning and said this is a very personal family matter and that is where we want it to stay then fair enough it should not be open for debate or discussion, but when you wheel your grief out to hide behind in a political argument, and use your loss to emotionally blackmail a watching audience and to somehow rally your troops at your party conference, then I think people who have some balls are right to question your reasoning for keep doing this. I know Gordon Brown suffered the loss of his child and he said it was a deeply private matter for he and his wife and so that was the way he kept it.

 

So Jack Monroe will get a lot of hate, and the Daily Mail won't let it drop untill she hangs herself, but I am with you all the way Jack and you were right to call it HOWEVER sadly you were not the first as I had already criticised Cameron for it back in the summer, but we on this forum are right on the button.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Mecky
Because the forum is automatically adding on to previous posts

[chalga]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/27/referendum-uk-presidency-eu-vote

 

In out in out you shake it all about:

 

 

 

 

Charles Grant, director of the think tank the Centre for European Reform, said that, if a Tory government were to recommend staying in the EU during a referendum campaign in 2017, then it might be possible to hold a reasonably successful British presidency. But if a Tory government were recommending withdrawal, the problems would be legion. “You could have a situation where the UK as president was trying to prevent agreement and its ministers then blamed the French and Germans to strengthen the case for us leaving.”

 

Richard Corbett, a Labour MEP who used to work as an adviser to the ex-president of the European council, Herman Van Rompuy, said a British presidency of the EU that overlapped with an in/out referendum would be a farce. “It is clear that Cameron did not think of this when he set out his referendum plans.”

Edited December 28, 2014 by chalga

[Mecky]

Another spot on observation:

 

So David Cameron gives out his Christmas message of “giving, sharing and taking care of others" I do not need to add to much to those hollow words from a hollow man.

 

This Christmas more than 80,000 families will be on a sanction over Christmas. Nearly 7,000 of them disabled people. An estimated saving of £20 million for the DWP for December.

 

90,000 children will now be homeless this Christmas as a direct result of the Tory punishment of the poor and never ending giving to the rich.

 

The inns are overflowing with 60,000 homeless families in one room B&B accommodation.

 

While Dave celebrates the birth of Christ in a humble stable at one of his four luxury residences , homeless veterans, who fought for his Christian country, will be sleeping on the streets tonight and some may be just lucky enough to be fed by a charity this Christmas day.

 

David Cameron refused millions of pounds from the EU to help the country feed the truly needy.

 

As Dave has now had his soul removed to allow him to stuff more fine food and wine into his stomach let's not forget some of the poors souls who died a miserable and lonely death at the hands of the Tories, like..

 

Mark Wood, a fragile man with Aspergers Syndrome, severe mental illness and cognitive functioning problems.He was found fit to work.His ESA and Housing Benefit were stopped.

He then simply sat alone in his flat and starved to death.

 

Mark woods sister and the sister of another man, David Clapson, a diabetic ex-soldier who also starved to death alone in his flat after being sanctioned by the government, held a meeting in Cameron's own constituency in November in an effort to make sure David Cameron would let no other vulnerable people starve to death in modern day Britain.

 

David Cameron couldn't even be bothered to reply, let alone turn up, and the deaths have carried on with the media and press giving no more than a few lines to the stories of these avoidable tragedies, and still very few seem to care about these nameless, voiceless people who went to their graves in silence and have become this countries national shame , which one day people will ask how an earth did we allow this happen.This country has gone backwards over the last four years to a time when nobody cared for anything apart from what they had or wanted, where selfishness and jealousy are now a by product of conservatism.

 

David Cameron and his sidekick George Osborne boasts that all this misery heaped upon the working poor was to save and strengthen Britain's economy !! That boast was left in tatters yesterday when Osborne and his lies were exposed by factual figures that showed the economy as pathetically weak and unbalanced and that Osborne"s boast about cutting the national debt was laughable. The national debt has soared by £89.7 billion in just 12 months, according to the Office for National Statistics.

 

One top American economist described George Osborne as a buffoon and that his so called long term economic plan was to shrink the state to a pre war level and let charity fill a tiny gap and then give the money that has literally been stolen from the hungry mouths of babies to the rich, and provide large corporations with an endless line of poverty waged slaves and free labour of the unemployed.

 

If Thatcher was once described as morally bankrupt then I do not know what words can be described to these parasites !! and let's not forget Nick Clegg and his Lib Dems who's last achievement of the year was to insure that the bedroom tax will still be in existence next year !!

 

David Cameron talks about christian values !! These are not exclusively Christian values, these are the values of any decent human being who when given the chance of power and the chance of change would do his or her up most to leave the country a better place than where they found it !!

 

David Cameron and his band of merry men have left devastation and misery at every turn, they have left the country the most divided it has ever been, and a country that is very nearly on the brink of another coming of the dark ages where the poor die in their slums unable to access medical services, or books and education or financial help for food and heating.

 

David Cameron's vision is that the rich should throw a few coins at the down trodden classes in the form of charity, and that the state should no longer take any burden in helping those that need help and that all that money should be diverted into increasing the countries wealth , which of course means increasing the wealth of the already wealthy.

 

Never ever forget that it was David Cameron who in 2010 gave the working class never ending austerity, and then gave the wealthiest a massive tax cut in the same breath...

[Frederick1]

Well done Meckie - couldn't have put it better myself!