The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[Mister Gee]

1 hour ago, Robin-H said:

That's a coincidence as I also live in Walkley - however I'm not suggesting all the people I talk to also live in Walkley. A couple do (who I know for certain dislike his policies) but the people I talk to are pretty much spread out across the country. 

As someone who grew up on a council estate I’m struggling to get my head around the fact that I live in a neighborhood with a Tory called Robin. It’s a funny old world.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Mister Gee

[Pettytom]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

Do they know what his policies are, or just what they've been told they are?

How they are phrased can make all the difference. Some of them are subtle and nuanced, they've been well thought out and costed to the best long term effect, unlike Boris' smash and grab tactics; promises meant not to be kept but to win elections.

If they don’t know what his policies are, who is to blame for that?

[Anna B]

37 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

If they don’t know what his policies are, who is to blame for that?

My point again. Never underestimate the power of the media.

 

Jeremy Corbyn's policies resonate with a lot of people, therefore it is not good Establishment policy to allow them to be given air-time. (instead Conservatives nick them and then claim them as their own...) Everytime the media are forced to mention Labour it's in relation to anti- semitism or some such. Everytime a Labour spokesman is required, it's an enemy of Corbyn that is wheeled out - ye Gods they've even had Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell. Everytime they are forced to feature Jeremy Corbyn himself, 9 times out of 10 it's just a visual (often unflattering,) with an unhelpful commentary over the top. If interviewed directly (a comparitavely rare occurance,) the interviewer is hostile and will not allow Corbyn to get down to discussing his policies as they'd rather fixate on some minor point. or anti-semtism.

 

Once you know this is happening you can spot it over and over again. Try looking through a newspaper and finding a positive story about Jeremy Corbyn - they're as rare as hen's teeth. Just by the law of averages there should be more positive stories about him as  he continues to do good work and personally connect with people.  So bad is this media bias, that he has once again been forced to take his main campaign to social media (though this is no longer as effective as it once was as other parties have become more aware of the threat it poses. I get very positive feeds, (including, incidently, a brief resume of Labours policiesbut of course that's not much use as they're preaching to the converted, and those that need to see them won't get them on their feeds. 

 

Labour's policies are all online and clearly laid out, but most people are disinclined to bother looking, they rely instead on what the media says which is almost always negative. However in the run up to the election new rules apply and Jeremy will get more chance to appear before the public, speak for himself and have his say. If the last election is anything to go on, people will like what they see and his popularity will rise exponentially. 

[ECCOnoob]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

My point again. Never underestimate the power of the media.

 

Jeremy Corbyn's policies resonate with a lot of people, therefore it is not good Establishment policy to allow them to be given air-time. (instead Conservatives nick them and then claim them as their own...) Everytime the media are forced to mention Labour it's in relation to anti- semitism or some such. Everytime a Labour spokesman is required, it's an enemy of Corbyn that is wheeled out - ye Gods they've even had Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell. Everytime they are forced to feature Jeremy Corbyn himself, 9 times out of 10 it's just a visual (often unflattering,) with an unhelpful commentary over the top. If interviewed directly (a comparitavely rare occurance,) the interviewer is hostile and will not allow Corbyn to get down to discussing his policies as they'd rather fixate on some minor point. or anti-semtism.

 

Once you know this is happening you can spot it over and over again. Try looking through a newspaper and finding a positive story about Jeremy Corbyn - they're as rare as hen's teeth. Just by the law of averages there should be more positive stories about him as  he continues to do good work and personally connect with people.  So bad is this media bias, that he has once again been forced to take his main campaign to social media (though this is no longer as effective as it once was as other parties have become more aware of the threat it poses. I get very positive feeds, (including, incidently, a brief resume of Labours policiesbut of course that's not much use as they're preaching to the converted, and those that need to see them won't get them on their feeds. 

 

Labour's policies are all online and clearly laid out, but most people are disinclined to bother looking, they rely instead on what the media says which is almost always negative. However in the run up to the election new rules apply and Jeremy will get more chance to appear before the public, speak for himself and have his say. If the last election is anything to go on, people will like what they see and his popularity will rise exponentially. 

Waaaa media bias waaa.   Same old head burying.  Same old excuses.   

[Pettytom]

3 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Waaaa media bias waaa.   Same old head burying.  Same old excuses.   

I don’t naturally agree with you on very much, but I’ll make an exception this time.

 

If a political party is so inept that it can’t get its message out there, it really needs new leadership . Th e Corbynistas need to stop whining and start doing. 

 

Having said that, I’ve just been listening to Angela Rayner on R4. It was a very fair interview and she spoke very well.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Pettytom

[convert]

The antisemitism is so bad even a blind man can see it

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/08/david-blunkett-says-he-despairs-about-labour-and-antisemitism

 

 

[Fudbeer]

3 hours ago, convert said:

The antisemitism is so bad even a blind man can see it

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/08/david-blunkett-says-he-despairs-about-labour-and-antisemitism

 

 

Indeed and when a left wing paper reports on a well respected Labour figure coming out with statements like that you can hardly call that media bias!

[max]

7 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Waaaa media bias waaa.   Same old head burying.  Same old excuses.   

Can you tell me where you saw all or any of the following?

(EDM - Early Day Motion)

Quote

From The Board of Deputies of British Jews facebook page.

Corbyn organised the Apr. 1977 defence of Jewish populated Wood Green from a Neo-Nazi march
EDM3933 7 Nov. 1990: Corbyn signs motion condemning the rise of antisemitism
EDM634, 11 Apr. 2000: Jeremy Corbyn signs motion condemning David Irving for being a Holocaust Denier
EDM1124, 6 Nov. 2000: Jeremy Corbyn praised the ‘British Schindler’, Bill Barazetti, for his WW2 kindertransport
EDM742, 28 Jan. 2002: Jeremy Corbyn signs motion praising football clubs for commemorating Holocaust Day
EDM1233 30 Apr. 2002: Corbyn was a primary sponsor on a motion condemning antisemitism
11 May 2002: Jeremy led a clean up of Finsbury Park Synagogue after an anti-Semitic attack
EDM1691, 23 July 2002: Corbyn condemned attacks on a synagogue in Swansea
EDM123 26 Nov. 2003: Corbyn officially condemns attacks on 2 Istanbul synagogues
EDM298, 16 Dec. 2003: Jeremy Corbyn signs motion commemorating International Holocaust Day
2004: Jeremy condemned news that anti-Semitic hate crimes had risen for yet another year
EDM461, 21 Jan. 2004: Jeremy Corbyn condemned the French government’s moves to ban the Jewish Kippa in French Schools
EDM717, 26 Feb. 2004: Jeremy signed a motion praising Simon Wiesenthal for bringing Nazi perpetrators of the Holocaust to justice
EDM1613, 8 Sept. 2004: Corbyn co-sponsored a bill expressing fears for the future of the United Synagogue Pension Scheme
EDM1699, 11 Oct. 2004: Jeremy Corbyn condemned arbitrary attacks on civilians in Israel and Palestine
EDM482, 12 Jan. 2005: Jeremy Corbyn signs a motion commemorating International Holocaust Day
EDM343, 16 June 2005: Jeremy condemned the desecration of a Jewish cemetery in east London
EDM1343, 11 Jan. 2006: Jeremy Corbyn signs a motion commemorating International Holocaust Day
EDM1774, 8 Mar. 2006: Jeremy Corbyn led condemnations of an Iranian Magazine soliciting cartoons about the Holocaust
EDM1267, 16 Apr. 2006: Jeremy Corbyn condemned Bryan Ferry for anti-Semitic remarks
EDM2414, 26 June 2006: Jeremy Corbyn praised British war veterans for their efforts to combat the Holocaust
EDM2705, 10 Oct. 2006: Jeremy signed a motion marking the 70th anniversary of Cable Street
EDM271, 14 Nov. 2007: Jeremy co-sponsored a motion lamenting the poverty and social exclusion East London Jews suffered
EDM153, 12 May 2008: Corbyn praised the efforts of the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto during the uprising of 1944
EDM2350, 27 Oct 2008: Jeremy Corbyn signs a motion marking the 70th anniversary of the horrors of the holocaust
EDM173, 8 Dec. 2008: Jeremy condemned the Press Complaints Commission for refusing to sanction The Times for antisemitism
EDM461, 14 Jan. 2009: Jeremy Corbyn condemned a wave of recent anti-Semitic incidents targeted
EDM605, 27 Jan. 2009: Corbyn signed John Mann’s motion condemning antisemitism on university campuses
EDM917 26 Feb. 2009: Jeremy signs a motion condemning antisemitism on the internet
EDM1175 24 Mar. 2009: Corbyn signs a motion praising the heroism of British Jews during Holocaust
EDM337, 2 Dec. 2009: Jeremy Condemned Iran’s treatment of Jewish minorities in Iran
EDM850 9 Feb. 2010: Jeremy joins in calls for Facebook to do more to fight antisemitism
EDM891: 22 Feb 2010: Corbyn co-sponsors a motion calling for Yemen’s Jews to be given refugee status to the UK
EDM908 27 Oct. 2010: Corbyn praises work of late Israeli PM in his pursuit of a 2 state solution
EDM1360, 27 Jan. 2011: Corbyn co-sponsored a motion praising the ‘never again for anyone initiative’
EDM1527, 3 Mar. 2011: Corbyn backed Ian Paisley’s motion condemning the anti-Semitic remarks of Dior’s lead fashion designer
EDM2870, 14 Mar. 2012: Jeremy Corbyn condemned the sale of Nazi memorabilia at an auction in Bristol
EDM2866, 14 Mar 2012: Jeremy Corbyn co-sponsored a bill condemning the rise of antisemitism in Lithuania
EDM2899, 20 Mar. 2012, Jeremy Corbyn condemned a terrorist attack on a Jewish school in Toulouse
EDM168, 12 June 2012, Jeremy co-sponsored a motion condemning anti-Semitic attacks during EURO 2012 in Poland
EDM 195 13 June 2012: Jeremy attacks BBC for cutting Jewish programmes from Its schedule
EDM 1133 1 Mar 2013: Corbyn joins a chorus of calls condemning antisemitism In sport
1 Oct. 2013: Corbyn was one of the few MPs who defended Ralph Miliband from Daily Mail antisemitism
EDM 932 9 Jan 2014: Jeremy praises Holocaust Memorial’s work on antisemitism education
EDM 165 22 June 2015: Jeremy condemns a Neo-Nazi rally planned for a Jewish area of London
Sat 4 July 2015: Jeremy co-planned a counter-fascist demo in defence of Jewish residents at Golders Green. The march was re-routed
18 Nov. 2015, Corbyn used one of his first PMQs to challenge Cameron to do more on antisemitism
9 Oct 2016: Corbyn, close to tears, leads commemoration of the Battle of Cable Street
3 Dec. 2016: Corbyn visits Terezin Concentration Camp to commemorate Holocaust victims
In 2017-19 Jeremy introduced 20 new measures to combat antisemitism in the Labour Party

 

[Anna B]

28 minutes ago, max said:

Can you tell me where you saw all or any of the following?

(EDM - Early Day Motion)

 

Exactly. Thankyou.

 

And yet Boris Johnson and his cohorts are not constantly hounded by questions about anti-Islamic problems in the Conservative party over and over again to the detriment of anything else he might want to say. 

 

[ECCOnoob]

From the Jewish Voice for Labour blogsite which has reposted the same list time and time and time again in order to try to conter Corbyn's failures. Its also over the Times of Israel site and Squarkbox.     Most of them meaningless.

 

By example....

 

The BBC and Guardian ran features on ".... Corbyn used one of his first PMQs to challenge Cameron to do more on antisemitism ...."  Which is a nice warped interpretation of what happened at PMQs when Cameron brought up the Anti-Semitism scandal and Corbyn provided one of his usual flailing responses.

 

The BBC, Guardian, Independants, Politico, New Statesman, Sun, Mirror and Sky all have references to "... Jeremy introduced 20 new measures to combat antisemitism in the Labour Party..." but that's hardly impressive considering he had no choice but to take action following the scandal breaking out, the investigation being commenced and his MPs dropping like flies.

 

As for some generic list of early day motions and co-sponsoring - what exactly is the great media story to cover?     Corbyn condems xx   Corbyn co-sponsors xx   Big deal.   Of course he is going to make a statement to "condem".    His world is image and PR.   As a politician he is not going to publicly state he supports anti-semetic acts is he?    

 

None of that outweights his failures to tackle the root of the problem.    None of that outweighs his failures to tackle the people involved direclty.   None of that outweights his own poor judgements.    Actions speak louder than words and as party leader his actions should be the most robust of all.  They arn't.    

 

Weak leadership.   Weak response.  

 

There is no media bias here.    Corbyn has ample opportunity to get his message out there.   Corbyn has ample opportunity to respond to criticism.   Corbyn has ample opportunity to step out of his comfort zone and fight the battle.   He doesn't.    Round and round he goes preaching to his disciples, sitting wedged firmly on the fence when it comes to difficult issues and failing to deliver any coherent message.   

 

That is not the fault of the so called "establishment media".    That is the fault of the incompetence of the flesh and bone charged with running the Labour Party.

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by ECCOnoob