The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[Mister Gee]

On 22/09/2018 at 17:47, Baron99 said:

Although not a supporter or fan of Corbyn, like being Trump being elected or Boris taking over the Conservatives, the mischievous side of me would like to see what would happen if he won an election?

 

And of course the UK needs a Lab govt once a generation just to remind us how bad things can really get with uncontrolled borrowing & higher taxes.

How’s your mischievous side feeling like these days?

Edited June 19, 2020 by Mister Gee

[El Cid]

On 02/06/2020 at 09:59, the_bloke said:

 More choice is better for all.

On 02/06/2020 at 09:08, the_bloke said:

Average performance in Northern Ireland improved, it said, but the gap between the top performers and the low performers widened, with pupils not going to grammar schools doing worse.

 

Obviously not!

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by El Cid

[El Cid]

On 02/06/2020 at 09:59, the_bloke said:

Your feelings on that last point is if you believe that people get a better start in life by going to grammar or fee paying schools or not. I believe they do, you presumably do not.

The parents of children that push them to go to grammar schools are a different kind of parent, so grammar schools will perform better.

 

[Arnold_Lane]

35 minutes ago, El Cid said:

The parents of children that push them to go to grammar schools are a different kind of parent, so grammar schools will perform better.

 

I thought entrance as based on an examination.  And the kind of kids that perform well in that exam perform well in other exams.

[alchresearch]

3 hours ago, Baron99 said:

So the post-mortem report into Labour's crushing defeat at the last General Election has been brought out by the 'Labour Together' project. 

 

Now there's an oxymoron. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53096233

 

What’s really surprising is they actually needed to spend time, money & effort to try & work out why they were abysmal at the GE? 

 

I could have saved them the effort.  Two words, the first begins with a 'J'. 

Its going to take a long time to build up that trust again.  Its not like people are saying "Hooray, Corbyn has gone, I'll vote Labour again".    They've certainly got my attention once more, but they need to earn my vote again.

 

Sadly there's still a large number of Corbynites still trying to wreck the party and undermine Starmer.    Its funny becuase when Corbyn was in charge, some people on here said that "Blairites"  (read as anyone who didn't like Corbyn)  needed to keep quiet and get behind him.  Shame it doesn't work both ways.  

 

Kier Starmer on Twitter gets more hate from Labour supporters than Tories these days.

Edited June 19, 2020 by alchresearch

[Anna B]

6 hours ago, Arnold_Lane said:

I thought entrance as based on an examination.  And the kind of kids that perform well in that exam perform well in other exams.

In the 1950's the 11plus exam was mandatory and all children took it at the end of Primary school. Those that passed went on to Grammar schools, and went on to sit exams that qualified them for University or a 'good job. 

 

Those that didn't pass went to the local Secondary Moderns, with the emphasis on  practical training for trade and industry.They left school at 15 or 16, and couldn't take  the necessary exams that qualified them for University.

Thus their course was pretty much set at age 11.

(I know this is an over simplification, but it was a simple system which relied only on passing the 11plus.)

 

Local Comprehensive schools changed all that, in that they provided equal opportunity to cater for all types of children, and they could ostensibly reach for a University education should they so wish, and take the exams.

But of course that depended not just on ability, but things like availability of facilities, quality of the teaching,  aspiration, support and encouragement from home etc, and that was not always equal.

 

Education has been tweaked and messed around with ever since, trying to level the playing field, but disadvantaged children still seem to miss out.  

Edited June 19, 2020 by Anna B

[Arnold_Lane]

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

In the 1950's the 11plus exam was mandatory and all children took it at the end of Primary school. Those that passed went on to Grammar schools, and went on to sit exams that qualified them for University or a 'good job. 

 

Those that didn't pass went to the local Secondary Moderns, with the emphasis on  practical training for trade and industry.They left school at 15 or 16, and couldn't take  the necessary exams that qualified them for University.

Thus their course was pretty much set at age 11.

(I know this is an over simplification, but it was a simple system which relied only on passing the 11plus.)

 

Local Comprehensive schools changed all that, in that they provided equal opportunity to cater for all types of children, and they could ostensibly reach for a University education should they so wish, and take the exams.

But of course that depended not just on ability, but things like availability of facilities, quality of the teaching,  aspiration, support and encouragement from home etc, and that was not always equal.

 

Education has been tweaked and messed around with ever since, trying to level the playing field, but disadvantaged children still seem to miss out.  

But the point El Cid made is that grammar schools do well because of the parents.  I don't think it can be denied that they do well because children that pass the entrance exam are generally good at exams.

 

I don't think El Cid's point was fair to the parents of less academically gifted children who fail grammar school entrance exams.

[Anna B]

Just now, Arnold_Lane said:

But the point El Cid made is that grammar schools do well because of the parents.  I don't think it can be denied that they do well because children that pass the entrance exam are generally good at exams.

 

I don't think El Cid's point was fair to the parents of less academically gifted children who fail grammar school entrance exams.

Yes, being good at exams certainly makes a difference, (which is why IMO I think course work should also be taken into consideration.) 

Having supportive, encouraging parents is also absolutely vital for children across the board. Sadly, not all children are so blessed.

Maybe those parents who have children at Grammar school are more motivated and inclined in this area.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Arnold_Lane]

Just now, Anna B said:

Yes, being good at exams certainly makes a difference, (which is why IMO I think course work should also be taken into consideration.) 

Having supportive, encouraging parents is also absolutely vital for children across the board. Sadly, not all children are so blessed.

Maybe those parents who have children at Grammar school are more motivated and inclined in this area.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is as bad as what El Cid wrote.

 

Kids a grammar school?  Good parents.

Kids at comp?  Bad parents.

 

Garbage.  Absolute garbage.  Several families had and have kids in both type of schools.

[budapest]

I am not originally from Sheffield but went to a gramnar school in another part of Yorkshire in the 1980s.  I also now teach.  When I was at school, there were people from all walks of life, from the council estates to the posher areas of town at the school.  I don't know anyone who had private tuition to get into the school. 

I don't know what the answer is but we seem to have the worst of both worlds now.  It seems that only parents that can afford private tuition get their children in to a grammar where they are available.  Unlike when I went,  students travel from many mikes away,  not just the local town ( my home town still has two grammars left).  In the comprehensive system, to get into the best schools you need to  afford a house in the  catchment area.  Both systems are heavily biased against the poor.  I was lucky.  My dad was a builder, I passed my 11+ and got to university at a time when far fewer school leavers went than go now.  What the solution to the problem is goes far deeper than just the school system,  and I admit I don't have a clue.