The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[WiseOwl182]

Well the national debt has very nearly doubled in 5 years.

 

In 2010 it was £0.76 trillion, in 2015 it stands at £1.36 trillion [LINK]

 

As for the deficit, that's not doing too well either:

 

 

 

[LINK, The Guardian, 22 September 2015]

 

See how I emphasized "shortfall in government funding"? You see, I do understand the difference between debt and deficit.

 

 

Debt had to grow when the inherited deficit was £160bn a year. Was Osborne supposed to reverse that overnight? Even if he had met the ambitious target of zero deficit by 2015, each of the 5 years up to then would still have run a decreasing deficit which would have increased debt, thanks to the level of the deficit inherited in 2010. Real austerity would have been cutting it overnight.

[Happ Hazzard]

The economy is like an massive ship. It takes a hell of a long time to turn round. People had become so reliant on the state though, it was ridiculous. Public sector jobs and tax credits take a lot of time to wean people off, and so many people are incredibly non-productive when they are at work, with endless coffee breaks, fag breaks, chit-chatting and skiving. And they see that as their "right" for some reason.

[I1L2T3]

Shall we go through debt Vs deficit again?

 

Yes. Here you go.

 

Our debt has doubled because the deficit is added to it each year. George Osborne failed to eliminate the deficit as planned which has caused the debt to increase beyond expected levels.

 

Simple ain't it.

 

---------- Post added 25-09-2015 at 07:03 ----------

 

oh dear still spewing out labour failed election lines i see. do keep it up. it lost miliband one election and will cost corbyn the next one.

 

i don't know if i mentioned it before, but labour aren't tusted on the economy. indeed i heard it say that corbyn isn't trusted with the economy and is seen as a national danger on defence. so good luck with your failed lines.

 

I don't support Labour. I don't care if they are trusted on the economy or not. I really don't.

 

I'm stating facts. Osborne has failed to eliminate the deficit as planned. Osborne has doubled our national debt in the process.

 

---------- Post added 25-09-2015 at 07:21 ----------

 

Debt had to grow when the inherited deficit was £160bn a year. Was Osborne supposed to reverse that overnight? Even if he had met the ambitious target of zero deficit by 2015, each of the 5 years up to then would still have run a decreasing deficit which would have increased debt, thanks to the level of the deficit inherited in 2010. Real austerity would have been cutting it overnight.

 

Big problem: he did not reduce the deficit to zero in five years.

 

We entered 2015 with an £80bn deficit so the debt accelerated past the expected levels set out in 2010.

 

The sacrifice for his experiment was three years of stagnant growth. We only got growth because he toned down the cuts in the run-up to 2015. He had to because the election was approaching.

 

It's comical really.

 

---------- Post added 25-09-2015 at 07:22 ----------

 

so you will understand that the deficit is due to spending commitments that labour had put in place and the fact they left no money to pay for them.

 

this is of course why labour aren't trusted on the economy.

 

Sorry that is complete nonsense.

 

The size of the deficit in 2010 had little to do with spending commitments.

 

Utter rot and you know it.

[TJC1]

Osborne is not competent. No way is he.

 

He's an economic menace

 

Rough times ahead for the economy.

 

---------- Post added 25-09-2015 at 07:26 ----------

 

The economy is like an massive ship. It takes a hell of a long time to turn round. People had become so reliant on the state though, it was ridiculous. Public sector jobs and tax credits take a lot of time to wean people off, and so many people are incredibly non-productive when they are at work, with endless coffee breaks, fag breaks, chit-chatting and skiving. And they see that as their "right" for some reason.

 

Productivity low. I agree. Stats prove it. The level of "work" one witnesses in average office is nothing short of pathetic. Like you said, chatting, tab breaks every hour, absenteeism.

 

---------- Post added 25-09-2015 at 07:30 ----------

 

I will predict the results of the next election now, the Tories will win easily, and Labour will - as usual - blame everyone but themselves. They'll blame the Tories, the LibDems, the media, and most of all, the people. "Why can't they just see?", they will wail. "Why are they voting against their own best interests?" And this will continue until either a) Labour learns to listen to people instead of telling people that they know what is best for them, or b) the Tories make a right pigs ear of the economy.

 

Labour slim hopes. There only hope is the economy tanks. And they get a coherent message together pre 2020.

 

They should of gone centre...covered centre voters interests. That ground now populated by tories.

[convert]

...Debt had to grow when the inherited deficit was £160bn a year. ...

 

...We entered 2015 with an £80bn deficit so the debt accelerated past the expected levels set out in 2010...

 

 

So you'd agree that he's halved the deficit then?

[I1L2T3]

Yes I agree he halved the deficit.

 

Problem is he missed his own target of eliminating it.

 

That IMO is going to cause us huge problems further down the line.

[WiseOwl182]

Yes. Here you go.

 

Our debt has doubled because the deficit is added to it each year. George Osborne failed to eliminate the deficit as planned which has caused the debt to increase beyond expected levels.

 

Simple ain't it.

 

---------- Post added 25-09-2015 at 07:03 ----------

 

 

I don't support Labour. I don't care if they are trusted on the economy or not. I really don't.

 

I'm stating facts. Osborne has failed to eliminate the deficit as planned. Osborne has doubled our national debt in the process.

 

---------- Post added 25-09-2015 at 07:21 ----------

 

 

Big problem: he did not reduce the deficit to zero in five years.

 

We entered 2015 with an £80bn deficit so the debt accelerated past the expected levels set out in 2010.

 

The sacrifice for his experiment was three years of stagnant growth. We only got growth because he toned down the cuts in the run-up to 2015. He had to because the election was approaching.

 

It's comical really.

 

---------- Post added 25-09-2015 at 07:22 ----------

 

 

Sorry that is complete nonsense.

 

The size of the deficit in 2010 had little to do with spending commitments.

 

Utter rot and you know it.

 

 

 

Even if he had reduced the deficit to zero by this year, debt would still have almost doubled. You do understand this, don't you?

 

---------- Post added 25-09-2015 at 21:13 ----------

 

Yes I agree he halved the deficit.

 

Problem is he missed his own target of eliminating it.

 

That IMO is going to cause us huge problems further down the line.

 

 

Maybe he should've cut further and faster?

[I1L2T3]

Even if he had reduced the deficit to zero by this year, debt would still have almost doubled. You do understand this, don't you?

 

---------- Post added 25-09-2015 at 21:13 ----------

 

 

 

Maybe he should've cut further and faster?

 

How could debt have doubled reaching the same amount of debt when the deficit was supposed to be at zero by 2015? No matter how you try and dress up the figures he overshot borrowing targets by £200-250bn. His own targets.

 

He flatlined the economy for 3 years when his plans required it to grow

 

He lost the triple A rating

 

New jobs were created but too many poor quality low paid ones. Tax receipts didn't rise as fast as expected

 

Conclusion: he's an incompetent rank amateur

Edited September 25, 2015 by I1L2T3

[Manlinose]

I will predict the results of the next election now, the Tories will win easily, and Labour will - as usual - blame everyone but themselves. They'll blame the Tories, the LibDems, the media, and most of all, the people. "Why can't they just see?", they will wail. "Why are they voting against their own best interests?" And this will continue until either a) Labour learns to listen to people instead of telling people that they know what is best for them, or b) the Tories make a right pigs ear of the economy.

 

Assuming history repeats itself, which it usually does, labour, or whichever left of centre party s the main opposition after the next election will win the election afterwards, assuming the conservatives do manage to sort out the economy in the meantime

 

The electorate historically may not have much faith in the labour party when the economy is struggling, but they do tend to reject the conservatives once times are better

[WiseOwl182]

How could debt have doubled reaching the same amount of debt when the deficit was supposed to be at zero by 2015?

 

I said almost doubled. It doubled because the deficit didn't reduce as quickly as planned but still reduced by half. Had it reduced to zero by 2015 there would still have been 5 years in between of a decreasing deficit adding to the debt. In the context of £1.6tn the difference isn't significant, but like I said, maybe he should've gone further and faster, like sorting out tax credits, but remember he was hampered by Lib Dems in the last parliament.