The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[Anna B]

So Osborne is bent on a surplus. Meanwhile the NHS is in chaos, mental health provision all but non existent, care for a great many people is a joke, the police are no longer able to police, libraries remain closed and public services are cut to the bone. And much more besides.

 

So is it a surplus, or simply starving everything of the necessary money?

 

Of course by then the buck will have been passed to Local councils and mayors who will not have enough money to do the job and will have to deal with the fallout.

[TJC1]

Yes, my household runs a surplus too. Most years. Like you we don't spend freely. The infrastructure of our house is reasonable. A few jobs need doing here and there but perfectly servicable. We've paid off the mortgage. Our transport is OK. The car is aging but well maintained and paid off.

 

But here is the thing. You household and my household are not wholly representative. I know three families that operate like mine. I know umpteen others that live month to month, nice houses, professional jobs, nice cars, big debt, one pay packet away from oblivion.

 

There is no typical household but let's work with the houseld/government analogy for a minute.

 

George Osborne has doubled our national debt. Every year he takes out a new credit card, spends to the limit but not to worry when he runs out of credit he goes and gets another new credit card. Year after year he repeats this, never paying down the debt. How long before he goes to Wonga? Like the family one pay packet from oblivion he's put the country in a position where we are one major global economic crisis from oblivion.

 

I agree with all this. Osbourne should just pay down the debt. Stop chuffing around. All it takes is a few bad quarters, a global crisis or a rise in interest rates and we are deep in trouble.

 

---------- Post added 14-10-2015 at 23:20 ----------

 

So Osborne is bent on a surplus. Meanwhile the NHS is in chaos, mental health provision all but non existent, care for a great many people is a joke, the police are no longer able to police, libraries remain closed and public services are cut to the bone. And much more besides.

 

So is it a surplus, or simply starving everything of the necessary money?

 

Of course by then the buck will have been passed to Local councils and mayors who will not have enough money to do the job and will have to deal with the fallout.

 

I thought the whole idea of surplus and deficit was it is fluid.

The NHS is in crisis to the tune of nearly 1 billion. It needs major investment. No ifs and buts about it.

 

They promised 8 billion. Apparently this hasnt happened yet. And even that doesnt look like enough.

[I1L2T3]

I agree with all this. Osbourne should just pay down the debt. Stop chuffing around. All it takes is a few bad quarters, a global crisis or a rise in interest rates and we are deep in trouble.

 

Until he clears the deficit he can't clear the debt.

 

What we have seen is that a global economic crisis like 2008 will cause an almost immediate economic slowdown in the UK. GDP will fall, unemployment will rise, benefits payments will increase, tax revenues will fall, banks will need to be supported.

 

In 2009-10 that translated into an extra £120bn of borrowing, by Labour.

 

If that happened now and we are already running a deficit of £80bn then with a bit of index linking thrown in we could hit a £225bn deficit in one year.

 

That is the danger Osborne has put us in. The just about servicable debt on the credit cards goes Wonga!!! Forget about doubled national debt. It'll triple.

 

Osborne IMO is not going to avoid this.

[drummonds]

Until he clears the deficit he can't clear the debt.

 

What we have seen is that a global economic crisis like 2008 will cause an almost immediate economic slowdown in the UK. GDP will fall, unemployment will rise, benefits payments will increase, tax revenues will fall, banks will need to be supported.

 

In 2009-10 that translated into an extra £120bn of borrowing, by Labour.

 

If that happened now and we are already running a deficit of £80bn then with a bit of index linking thrown in we could hit a £225bn deficit in one year.

That is the danger Osborne has put us in. The just about servicable debt on the credit cards goes Wonga!!! Forget about doubled national debt. It'll triple.

 

Osborne IMO is not going to avoid this.

 

no that is the danger labour put us in and osbourne is clearing up. it is a deficit that most labour mps voted to increase not decrease. oh dear oh dear oh dear...

 

deficit denial is a non-starter for anyone to have any economic credibility with the electorate

 

it is unarguable that no modern party leader can win an election if behind in the polls on economic competence.

Edited October 14, 2015 by drummonds

[I1L2T3]

no that is the danger labour put us in and osbourne is clearing up.

 

 

deficit denial is a non-starter for anyone to have any economic credibility with the electorate

 

---------- Post added 14-10-2015 at 23:27 ----------

 

it is unarguable that no modern party leader can win an election if behind in the polls on economic competence.

 

Nobody is denying the deficit. Nobody ever has.

 

You're right about the economy though. Unfortunately it's about who is the least crap on the economy. No party is genuinely trusted.

[TJC1]

Until he clears the deficit he can't clear the debt.

 

What we have seen is that a global economic crisis like 2008 will cause an almost immediate economic slowdown in the UK. GDP will fall, unemployment will rise, benefits payments will increase, tax revenues will fall, banks will need to be supported.

 

In 2009-10 that translated into an extra £120bn of borrowing, by Labour.

 

If that happened now and we are already running a deficit of £80bn then with a bit of index linking thrown in we could hit a £225bn deficit in one year.

 

That is the danger Osborne has put us in. The just about servicable debt on the credit cards goes Wonga!!! Forget about doubled national debt. It'll triple.

 

Osborne IMO is not going to avoid this.

 

I agree tbh. im not sure labour would avoid a disaster either though.

 

Tough times ahead.

 

Increase in wages so poss employment slowdown forced by big business, tax credits cut, tax revenues fall.

More saving, less spend. People in general will just have less disposible.

 

Is the economy robust enough to cope?

 

Extremely unlikely atm.

[I1L2T3]

no that is the danger labour put us in and osbourne is clearing up. it is a deficit that most labour mps voted to increase not decrease. oh dear oh dear oh dear...

 

deficit denial is a non-starter for anyone to have any economic credibility with the electorate

 

it is unarguable that no modern party leader can win an election if behind in the polls on economic competence.

 

No mate, that is the danger Osborne has put us in. Almost 6 years now. There's got to be a point where he taskesd more responsibility

 

Maybe if he didn't take drugs or get drunk before going into parliament I'd have more faith in him

 

https://youtu.be/wBtXxYrp7mo

 

You don't get like that off a couple of paracetamol

[TJC1]

no that is the danger labour put us in and osbourne is clearing up. it is a deficit that most labour mps voted to increase not decrease. oh dear oh dear oh dear...

 

deficit denial is a non-starter for anyone to have any economic credibility with the electorate

 

it is unarguable that no modern party leader can win an election if behind in the polls on economic competence.

 

I give you 100-1 we go through a recession in the next 5 years. Possibly even worse than 2008.

 

Osbourne and any politician will be unable to stop it.

[I1L2T3]

I agree tbh. im not sure labour would avoid a disaster either though.

 

Tough times ahead.

 

Increase in wages so poss employment slowdown forced by big business, tax credits cut, tax revenues fall.

More saving, less spend. People in general will just have less disposible.

 

Is the economy robust enough to cope?

 

Extremely unlikely atm.

 

Labour would be equally disastrous because they have shown very little understanding of what has caused the issues.

[drummonds]

Nobody is denying the deficit. Nobody ever has.

 

You're right about the economy though. Unfortunately it's about who is the least crap on the economy. No party is genuinely trusted.

 

actually the polls show rather more...no a lot more people trust the tories with the economy than trust labour.

 

interestingly labour mps had hoped to regain some credibility by voting today on the deficit measures. but the party blew it.

 

BBC's political editor Laura Kuenssberg said former shadow ministers Tristram Hunt, Chis Leslie, Shabana Mahmood and Liz Kendall were among 21 MPs to have defied the leadership by abstaining. but it seems the rest u turned like sheep and proved the lack of trust in them is fully justified.

 

labour are not and cannot be tusted with the economy.