The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[banjodeano]

Banjo no. I'm sorry but that's not how it is. The poor are far better off and far better supported by the rest than they were in 1981. The rich are very, very rich, but most people don't mind that. They may feel envy or perhaps even some injustice, but it's not strong enough for them to want to turn the system on its head.

Your "perfect storm" doesn't exist. And no amount of willing it to do so, or pretending that it is doing so, is going to get you anything other than the death of the Labour party.

Snap out of it and look around you at what people actually think and are actually prepared to vote for.

Sorry, but you are wrong unbeliever, the poor are not better off than they were in 1981, if that were the case, why are there many many more people now having to go to the food banks to survive? one million?

and people do mind the rich fleecing us, but they never had a voice, and now they have a voice, Corbyn has given people that voice, the Labour Party has just about trebled its membership...yeah, i know you will say its just the faithful lefties and such, and we are never going to agree on that....but the storm is coming, the media will tell you Corbyn is unelectable, but people are seeing through the media lies

[unbeliever]

Sorry, but you are wrong unbeliever, the poor are not better off than they were in 1981, if that were the case, why are there many many more people now having to go to the food banks to survive? one million?

and people do mind the rich fleecing us, but they never had a voice, and now they have a voice, Corbyn has given people that voice, the Labour Party has just about trebled its membership...yeah, i know you will say its just the faithful lefties and such, and we are never going to agree on that....but the storm is coming, the media will tell you Corbyn is unelectable, but people are seeing through the media lies

 

Have a look again at the voting intentions of the actual UK people. This is how it actually is. It's not really a matter of opinion.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2

 

As to the poor being better or worse off. In 1981 there was no minimum wage and far less support available in terms of benefits. I don't see what's supposed to be worse? If you couldn't afford food, there was nothing to be done and you went without.

Edited September 28, 2016 by unbeliever

[Guest]

Banjo no. I'm sorry but that's not how it is. The poor are far better off and far better supported by the rest than they were in 1981. The rich are very, very rich, but most people don't mind that. They may feel envy or perhaps even some injustice, but it's not strong enough for them to want to turn the system on its head.

Your "perfect storm" doesn't exist. And no amount of willing it to do so, or pretending that it is doing so, is going to get you anything other than the death of the Labour party.

Snap out of it and look around you at what people actually think and are actually prepared to vote for.

 

You make good points here. Relatively speaking, pretty much everyone, even most of those at the bottom rung of the ladder, are living good...it tends to be those that are unemployable, due perhaps to drug and/or mental problems that have it rough, but I know cleaners shop workers and so on, people like me, with beautifully furnished homes and happy, healthy children etc.

Yes we all have a bit of a grumble about the undeserving rich but there's no appetite for revolution just yet.

 

That said. my ideal government would be a slightly right leaning Labour government rather than a Tory one.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Guest

[Robin-H]

Sorry, but you are wrong unbeliever, the poor are not better off than they were in 1981, if that were the case, why are there many many more people now having to go to the food banks to survive? one million?

 

I would like to see some statistics to back up the claim that the poor are worse off now than they were in 1981? I've not read anything that would support such a claim.

 

The correlate the use of food banks and increase in poverty since that 80s does not work. The Trussell Trust (one of the largest providers of food banks) didn't open their first food bank until 2000 - it is therefore hardly surprising that not as many people went in the early 80s..

 

Secondly, under the previous Labour Government, job centre staff were not allowed to refer benefit claimants to food banks. The rule was abolished when the Conservatives came in, and unsurprisingly food bank use rose. I am not claiming that that is the only reason why, but it surely would have had a significant effect.

[Santo]

I would like to see some statistics to back up the claim that the poor are worse off now than they were in 1981? I've not read anything that would support such a claim.

 

The correlate the use of food banks and increase in poverty since that 80s does not work. The Trussell Trust (one of the largest providers of food banks) didn't open their first food bank until 2000 - it is therefore hardly surprising that not as many people went in the early 80s..

 

Secondly, under the previous Labour Government, job centre staff were not allowed to refer benefit claimants to food banks. The rule was abolished when the Conservatives came in, and unsurprisingly food bank use rose. I am not claiming that that is the only reason why, but it surely would have had a significant effect.

 

Is that a fact? What was the reasoning behind not referring those on benefits to food banks? Were they just for the homeless?

[Robin-H]

Is that a fact? What was the reasoning behind not referring those on benefits to food banks? Were they just for the homeless?

 

I believe it is a fact yes - it was claimed by Iain Duncan Smith, which I know will not convince everybody, but it has never been refuted by the Labour Government, and I also know somebody who used to work in a Job Centre who agreed that it was not policy to mention the existence of food banks (I know personal anecdotes don't really prove anything).

 

I think the reason for this is because the government do not want to be seen as suggesting that food banks make up part of the benefits system. They shouldn't be needed if the benefit system works, and therefore advertising them is in the sense passing the buck.

 

The Job Centre now can however offer a food bank referral service, although the government still maintain they do not form part of the welfare system, it is not surprising why their use has grown.

 

Delays to benefit payments (one of the biggest reasons why people, when asked, say they need foodbanks) fell under the Coalition (under Labour 86% of payments were processed on time, under the Coalition it was 92%).

 

Less people also said they struggled to buy food in the preceding 12 months (8.1% by the end of the Coalition compared to 9.8% in 2007). These statistics suggest the greater number and awareness of food banks must be a significant contributor to their increased use.

[Santo]

I believe it is a fact yes - it was claimed by Iain Duncan Smith, which I know will not convince everybody, but it has never been refuted by the Labour Government, and I also know somebody who used to work in a Job Centre who agreed that it was not policy to mention the existence of food banks (I know personal anecdotes don't really prove anything).

 

I think the reason for this is because the government do not want to be seen as suggesting that food banks make up part of the benefits system. They shouldn't be needed if the benefit system works, and therefore advertising them is in the sense passing the buck.

 

The Job Centre now can however offer a food bank referral service, although the government still maintain they do not form part of the welfare system, it is not surprising why their use has grown.

 

Delays to benefit payments (one of the biggest reasons why people, when asked, say they need foodbanks) fell under the Coalition (under Labour 86% of payments were processed on time, under the Coalition it was 92%).

 

Less people also said they struggled to buy food in the preceding 12 months (8.1% by the end of the Coalition compared to 9.8% in 2007). These statistics suggest the greater number and awareness of food banks must be a significant contributor to their increased use.

 

Thanks Robin, that's interesting.

 

Back to Corbyn's Labour:

 

Corbyn is expected today to say unlimited migration from the EU will continue under his governance.

 

Can't see that bringing back Labour voters lost to UKIP!

[alchresearch]

but......today is not 1981, its a whole new ball game, the country is being sold off, the rich are making billions and paying no tax, the poor have austerity...its a perfect storm

 

Makes you wonder why and how the Tories won in 2015 if things are really that bad? Or have these things suddenly happened since then?

[Robin-H]

Makes you wonder why and how the Tories won in 2015 if things are really that bad? Or have these things suddenly happened since then?

 

And does Banjodeano suggest that those things weren't happening in 1981? Or when Thatcher won in 1983, or when Thatcher won again in 1987, or when Major won in 1992?

 

Things must have really gone down hill since 2015 if they think there is a sudden groundswell of support that didn't exist in any of these elections..

[Santo]

And does Banjodeano suggest that those things weren't happening in 1981? Or when Thatcher won in 1983, or when Thatcher won again in 1987, or when Major won in 1992?

 

Things must have really gone down hill since 2015 if they think there is a sudden groundswell of support that didn't exist in any of these elections..

 

We live in the post-truth age.