The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[melthebell]

Farage is a parasite that has made a career out of fooling people that are desperate and naive.

now that part we can agree on

[alchresearch]

The Labour party lead in the polls, almost entirely down to Jeremy Corbyn, is now 8 points ahead of the Conservatives.

 

And just a week later:

 

Voting Intention: Conservatives 42%, Labour 41% (10-11 Dec)

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/12/12/voting-intention-conservatives-42-labour-41-10-11-/

 

Why are Labour not doing better?

[melthebell]

And just a week later:

 

Voting Intention: Conservatives 42%, Labour 41% (10-11 Dec)

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/12/12/voting-intention-conservatives-42-labour-41-10-11-/

 

Why are Labour not doing better?

because the mass media are hiding the good bits (as inconsequential as they might be) and showing all the bad bits?

 

theyve gained on the tories more than before the election?

 

youve also got to take into account brexit and the majority did vote for it it, so id say quite a large proportion of the population have turned slightly inward looking, selfish, and dare i say right wing?

[L00b]

Why are Labour not doing better?

Because they're sitting pretty on the fence, whilst the Conservatives are tearing each other to bits, and so keeping well away from the edge of the public/massmedia parapet.

 

When was the last time you saw the MSM report on Corbyn/Labour in any substantive way?

 

All these Labour statistical 'gains' have been by default, i.e. as a result of continuing Tory infighting and Ministers' confusing ineptitude, rather than new Labour policies and opposition work.

 

Politically, it's still the correct play at this time, so who could blame them?

 

Don't expect them to come off that fence just yet, either. There's a ways to go yet, until enough of the electorate is ready to buy <whatever> Labour peddles, just for the sake of being rid of the Conservatives. But that situation is coming, slowly by the week.

Edited December 14, 2017 by L00b

[banjodeano]

And just a week later:

 

Voting Intention: Conservatives 42%, Labour 41% (10-11 Dec)

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/12/12/voting-intention-conservatives-42-labour-41-10-11-/

 

Why are Labour not doing better?

The tories own the media..

[Flanker7]

Because they're sitting pretty on the fence, whilst the Conservatives are tearing each other to bits, and so keeping well away from the edge of the public/massmedia parapet.

 

When was the last time you saw the MSM report on Corbyn/Labour in any substantive way?

 

All these Labour statistical 'gains' have been by default, i.e. as a result of continuing Tory infighting and Ministers' confusing ineptitude, rather than new Labour policies and opposition work.

 

Politically, it's still the correct play at this time, so who could blame them?

 

Don't expect them to come off that fence just yet, either. There's a ways to go yet, until enough of the electorate is ready to buy <whatever> Labour peddles, just for the sake of being rid of the Conservatives. But that situation is coming, slowly by the week.

 

It has to come, eventually, and Labour will have to settle to a compromise.

 

They will have to chart a course between:-

a) The idealistic, internationalist position which rejects the rich man's club that is the E.U. Corbyn and Foot types.

and

b) The pragmatic view of getting the country the best future before we can help others which is to Remain. (This option is based on getting elected to government first.) Blair and Milliband types.

 

The Tories never have this problem because option a) is never even considered in their selfish, looking after number 1 and keeping the people in their place mindset. Which is shrouded in right-wing rhetoric and the pseudo-one nation approach, which incidentally, can be Brexit or Remain

Edited December 14, 2017 by Flanker7

[L00b]

It has to come, eventually, and Labour will have to settle to a compromise.

Funnily enough I was having that conversation on another message board last night.

 

Whilst in full agreement with you about the opposed views which bracket that notional compromise, and the pragmatic need to reach that compromise, I couldn't -and I still can't- see Labour reaching that compromise within any useful timeframe given the Article 50 negotiation clock (realistically less than 12 months now).

 

If Labour should get into No.10 before March 2019 through some new GE -and precipitate it off that comfy fence- my money is still on infighting of a scale to rival that of the Conservatives, with the Article 50 timescale acting as a potent accelerant, if Corbyn is still the leader and ends up as the PM.

 

Corbyn is many things to many people, but -wholly regardless of his ideas, policies, merits, faults, <etc.>- one thing he is resolutely not -to anyone- is "one for turning". His historical voting record, consistently anti-EU on all things EU going back decades, says as much.

 

For my money still, and now this is completely tea leaves reading material, Labour are completely happy to continue sitting on the fence until 2021 if they can get away with it, and let the Consertives-DUP duo carry out Brexit to the next (normally-scheduled) GE in 2021. Then Labour can enjoy shooting political fishes in barrels during the campaign (and for years later) as, by that time, the full consequences will have permeated down to the voter level, the length and breadth of the country. Which, accessorily, explains why Labour are not climbing faster in the polls, and also Keir Stamer's very uncharacteristic political play of yesterday.

 

The Conservatives loaded the GFC and its aftermath on Labour's shoulders for years, Labour will be loading Brexit and its aftermath on the Conservatives' shoulders for years: all is fair in love and war, and the FPTP shall be safe for that much longer

Edited December 14, 2017 by L00b

[Flanker7]

But, Corbyn did turn from anti-europe to pro-europe - once he had become leader. If he could do it then most other Labour Brexiteers will too. I'm not sure if Momentum have an itemised political agenda, their position on Europe interests me as Jezza was anti, was pro at the refendum and now signs up to the 'will of the people'?

 

Interesting that you put 2 situations on an even footing which, imo, are not.

1. An unintentional international meltdown affecting all nations.

2. A deliberate British decision caused by a weak leader who wanted to close down an problematic faction of his party. Which affects the UK in a massive way and no other nation to a fraction of the same degree.

However, I doubt that the electorate will see the difference. The deciding factor may be that 2008 is a long time ago and since then we will have had Austerity policies, the effect of Brexit and the machinations of the exit pantomime.

 

Having said that, Labour love a barny and are not good at showing a united front. Which is something that has always puzzled me being the party of 'the people united can never be defeated'!

Edited December 15, 2017 by Flanker7

[Guest]

The tories own the media..

 

If that's the case why were John Major, William Hague, Michael Howard and Ian Duncan Smith were slaughtered by the media?

[banjodeano]

If that's the case why were John Major, William Hague, Michael Howard and Ian Duncan Smith were slaughtered by the media?

 

I don't recal them getting slaughtered by the media, definitely not on the scale by which Corbyn has been abused...you dont think the media is owned by the Tories and have a vested interest?