The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[Robin-H]

ahhh, that would be why there was such an outcry then..lol

just out of interest, you asked me to explain why i thought democracy was slipping away, and i gave you a reply which you didnt even acknowledge, i also asked the question, "do you fail to see how this can be viewed as non democratic"??

 

---------- Post added 28-03-2018 at 13:10 ----------

 

i did, i just didnt agree with it

 

The first reasons why you thought democracy was being eroded was because you thought the BBC doctored an image of Corbyn to make him look communist, something that is simply untrue.

 

Another reason you gave was because you claim the accusations of anti-semitism are 'nonsense' and are just being talked about in the media as a stick to beat Corbyn with. I consider that is quite shameful, and belittles genuine concerns and problems within the Labour Party. You can't bury your head in the sand and claim these things aren't happening.

 

So to answer your question, no I don't think any of the things you mentioned are non democratic.

 

Democracy is a system of government whereby the whole population or all the eligible members of a state vote for elected representatives. How are the Tories eroding that?

 

---------- Post added 28-03-2018 at 13:48 ----------

 

There isn't a Youtube video of Corbyn saying it was or wasn't doctored, so the default Corbynista position is to assume lies until Corbyn says otherwise.

 

Ah yes I forgot that things are only true when there is video evidence of Corbyn saying it himself.

 

Remember, even official statements by Corbyn aren't proof unless you see him read them out loud.

[Calahonda]

Can you explain to me how a party whose philosophy is based on the idea of racial purity ever be portrayed as the 'people's party?

 

Certainly, socialism is political and economic theory that advocates equality, national simply means a citizen of a particular country. Obviously Hitler’s definition of equality was that some were more equal than other. This is why the meaning of socialism is not the same to all, and is forever open to question.

[bendix]

Are you saying that National Socialism was left wing?

 

 

The left and right divide in politics and philosophy is far more complex than your question suggests.

 

But, yes, certain core tenets of the Nazi Party policies bear close resemblance to traditional ideas of far left thinking. Central to their thinking was agitating the working class against capitalist exploiters and they advocated nationalisation of core industries like education, healthcare and transport. In a 1927 speech Hitler said: “We are socialists. We are the enemies of today’s capitalist system of exploitation … and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.”

[Mister M]

The left and right divide in politics and philosophy is far more complex than your question suggests.

 

But, yes, certain core tenets of the Nazi Party policies bear close resemblance to traditional ideas of far left thinking. Central to their thinking was agitating the working class against capitalist exploiters and they advocated nationalisation of core industries like education, healthcare and transport. In a 1927 speech Hitler said: “We are socialists. We are the enemies of today’s capitalist system of exploitation … and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.”

 

Aren't Tories in favour of core industries being nationalised like Health and Education?

[bendix]

Aren't Tories in favour of core industries being nationalised like Health and Education?

 

Not particularly, no. It might be Tory policy to maintain much of it in state hands, but the reality is more and more of it is being handed to private sector companies, PPP projects etc.

 

And it is the essence of conservative thinking to focus on gradual change, subtle enhancements etc, unlike traditional socialist thought which is about overhauling societal structures.

 

In that sense too, Nazi thinking is much more akin to revolutionary socialist thinking than conservatism.

[Calahonda]

Socialism in all of it’s guises, killed more people in the 20th century than democratic capitalism.

[Top Cats Hat]

Central to their thinking was agitating the working class against capitalist exploiters

 

You can't agitate the working class against anyone while simultaneously dividing them one against another.

 

In practice, fascism has always had a cosy relationship with big business from Hitler's links with I G Farben, Krupps & Siemens to the National Front and BNP collecting data for the Economic League's blacklist in the 1970s and 1980s.

[bendix]

You can't agitate the working class against anyone while simultaneously dividing them one against another.

 

In practice, fascism has always had a cosy relationship with big business from Hitler's links with I G Farben, Krupps & Siemens to the National Front and BNP collecting data for the Economic League's blacklist in the 1970s and 1980s.

 

I think you're being too simplistic - i could make a good case that facism is an essential left wing philosophy too, based on the old populist tradition of galvansing the masses against an easily identifiable (usually alien) enemy, nationalisation of core industries etc.

 

As for links with big business, how does modern China fit into that thinking? It's run by a communist party, yet is effectively state capitalism, with the state effectively creating and then setting free (but maintaining elements of control) over massive Chinese run international companies. Huawei would be a great example of that.

 

So in China we have a communist government running a state-directed industry, state directed companies, all against a backdrop of free market economies, with few political freedoms. That sounds the very definition of facism to me.

 

Labels are meaningless now.

[hackey lad]

ahhh, that would be why there was such an outcry then..lol

just out of interest, you asked me to explain why i thought democracy was slipping away, and i gave you a reply which you didnt even acknowledge, i also asked the question, "do you fail to see how this can be viewed as non democratic"??

 

---------- Post added 28-03-2018 at 13:10 ----------

 

i did, i just didnt agree with it

 

"Outcry " from who ? LOL

[Calahonda]

Tory voters on this thread are on other threads blaming labour for the fall out from the government's austerity programme - you couldn't make it up.

 

Is your definition of a ‘Tory’, anyone who doesn’t support Labour? If so there are a hell of a lot of Tories about.