The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[Top Cats Hat]

20 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

Well as someone who does not have a FB, Twitter, Instagram account or whatever, I'll take your word for it in the absence of anything else, unless someone else wants to chuck their twopennth in to disagree? 

I know plenty of people in the Labour Party including many on the left and not only have none of them ever expressed any antisemitic views, if they had done, they would have been rightly condemned by their comrades. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist in the Labour Party but I would struggle to work out why someone with those views would choose to be a member of a political party which is based on the principle of equality.

[bendix]

7 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

I know plenty of people in the Labour Party including many on the left and not only have none of them ever expressed any antisemitic views, if they had done, they would have been rightly condemned by their comrades. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist in the Labour Party but I would struggle to work out why someone with those views would choose to be a member of a political party which is based on the principle of equality.

It's simple really TCH - too many unthinking members of the far left conflate (and extend) genuine concerns with Israel's policies in the region into areas that border on anti-semitism generally. Add to that historic far left (and far right) suspicions about big business, global groupings like the IMF etc and big banks being run by some kind of jewish cabal, and they are an easy scapegoat.  A good history and overview is here.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party

 

Is it really too much of a stretch to think that misguided idiots who oppose big banks and business take the next step and see jewish conspiracy nonsense all over the place too?

 

[tinfoilhat]

35 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

I know plenty of people in the Labour Party including many on the left and not only have none of them ever expressed any antisemitic views, if they had done, they would have been rightly condemned by their comrades. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist in the Labour Party but I would struggle to work out why someone with those views would choose to be a member of a political party which is based on the principle of equality.

As we’re often reminded the Labour Party is a broad church. Take our dear friend car boot. He doesn’t want equality, he wants rich people to be poor - he’s said so in his posts. Others want more for the working classes, and depending on where they live they mean white working class, certainly not foreign working class.

[Top Cats Hat]

10 minutes ago, bendix said:

Is it really too much of a stretch to think that misguided idiots who oppose big banks and business take the next step and see jewish conspiracy nonsense all over the place too?

I have never come across anyone on the left who sees the Jewish bankers conpiracy theories as anything other than an obsession of the far right. If nothing else, the left have always been well read. 

 

Unfortunately the Labour Party has let itself be bullied into accepting the fallacy that criticism of Zionism and the actions of the state of Israel are both antisemitic. Now that they have done that they are in a no win situation. While a sizeable part of the Labour Party continues to support the Palestinians and continues to criticize the actions of Israel in the region, accusations of antisemitism will continue to be levelled at the Labour Party.

 

The only genuine antisemitism I have ever seen any evidence of from Labour Party members, is Holocaust denial by some Muslim councillors. 

[I1L2T3]

1 hour ago, geared said:

The fact that they are still hanging around and able to do damage in the first place is what baffles me though.

 

I don't understand why this issue wasn't nipped in the bud in the first instance, I mean it's not something that requires a great amount of debate over, it's completely unacceptable.

There’s always a very careful line to be trod when critiquing a state that is founded on religion. Most people get that. A lot of people who join Labour don’t, and they see Labour as a vehicle for attacking Israel.

[Top Cats Hat]

16 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

As we’re often reminded the Labour Party is a broad church. Take our dear friend car boot. He doesn’t want equality, he wants rich people to be poor - he’s said so in his posts. 

I'm open to correction but isn't Car Boot a member/supporter of the Socialist Workers Party which is a Trotskyist party that has nothing to do with the Labour Party?

[tinfoilhat]

1 minute ago, Top Cats Hat said:

I'm open to correction but isn't Car Boot a member/supporter of the Socialist Workers Party which is a Trotskyist party that has nothing to do with the Labour Party?

It's odd he's got an old picture of corbyn as his avatar. Perhaps he's being ironic.

[Top Cats Hat]

6 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

It's odd he's got an old picture of corbyn as his avatar. Perhaps he's being ironic.

Trotskyists don't do irony.

 

I set a trap for him last year by mentioning 'Comrade Delta', the SWP central committee member accused of rape in 2010 and subsequently covered up by the party. He reacted badly, which suggested party loyalty to me as no one anwhere would support a rape victim being bullied into not going to the police unless they were close to the party.

 

If I am reading too much into this and am wrong I apologise.

[WiseOwl182]

7 hours ago, I1L2T3 said:

You said I could make a patriotic gift. That is for debt reduction, not for services and if you check back that is the context of my original response where I said I would happily pay more tax to support decent public services - read back. There is no guarantee that any savings made as a result of making a patriotic gift would be spent on services, especially with the Tories in charge of public finances.

 

Not a solution is it. Never in a million years. And especially not for people like me who detest the Tories with every fibre of their being 

Where there's a will there's a way. Why not contact the government and find out how you can donate extra income tax contributions to them? Explain how you feel you're not paying enough and how you want to put your money where your mouth is. I'm sure there'll be a way.

[I1L2T3]

2 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Where there's a will there's a way. Why not contact the government and find out how you can donate extra income tax contributions to them? Explain how you feel you're not paying enough and how you want to put your money where your mouth is. I'm sure there'll be a way.

The best way is to make sure that the rotten to the core main parties are held to account, and start to fund our services in a sustainable way. It’s not about me as an individual.