The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[banjodeano]

6 hours ago, I1L2T3 said:

IMO exactly the same processes that have emboldened those on the right to feel they can do and say whatever they want have emboldened those on the left too.

 

It’s open season to support whatever cause you support in vociferous ways that were previously considered to be extreme and unreasonable.

 

So many of us on the left have been careful for decades when it comes to legitimate questioning of Zionism. There’s a fine line that is so easy to cross, and when you do you are going to get shot down because you will be accused of anti-Semitism. I’m careful to the point where I often just don’t engage on the subject because it just isn’t worth it with a lot of people.

 

Many in Momentum don’t care that line even exists. They’re down a rabbit hole just as much as the hard right are. Their actions are reinforced by the attitudes and beliefs of Corbyn. 

 

Its a massive problem for the party, and yet another reason why they’ll never get my vote ever again.

and what are they?

[I1L2T3]

3 hours ago, banjodeano said:

and what are they?

Concerned about Zionism and Pro-Palestinian, which incidentally I am as well. Thats the attitude bit.

 

The actions are evident and Labour is about to get investigated for them. That’s at the institutional level. Couple with (stuck down the rabbit hole) activists’ sense of emboldenment it’s a toxic combination. They’re just as bad as those on the far right in terms of the filters they apply to a problem.

[alchresearch]

 

13 hours ago, I1L2T3 said:

So many of us on the left have been careful for decades when it comes to legitimate questioning of Zionism. There’s a fine line that is so easy to cross, and when you do you are going to get shot down because you will be accused of anti-Semitism. I’m careful to the point where I often just don’t engage on the subject because it just isn’t worth it with a lot of people.

This is what I don't understand.  I supported and voted Labour in every election from 1992 to 2010. 

 

In all that time my concern was with UK politics and getting the Tories out.  Jews, Israel and Zionism wasn't even on my list, and still isn't.  I don't recall any election leaflets in Sheffield concerning anything other than the other two parties.

 

And I don't understand this:
 

Labour conference: Members fill hall with Palestinian flags
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45634379

Don't we have enough things in the UK to care about?  Which country does the Labour party want to represent?

Edited March 8, 2019 by alchresearch

[I1L2T3]

4 hours ago, alchresearch said:

 

This is what I don't understand.  I supported and voted Labour in every election from 1992 to 2010. 

 

In all that time my concern was with UK politics and getting the Tories out.  Jews, Israel and Zionism wasn't even on my list, and still isn't.  I don't recall any election leaflets in Sheffield concerning anything other than the other two parties.

 

And I don't understand this:
 

Labour conference: Members fill hall with Palestinian flags
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45634379

Don't we have enough things in the UK to care about?  Which country does the Labour party want to represent?

It speaks of what Corbyn’s priorities genuinely are. Like I’ve said before if Corbyn was leader of a rump labour with maybe 50-100 MPs post-Brexit railing against cosy US-U.K. relations he’d be as happy as a pig in muck. 

 

What he’s done is take his personal causes (none of which I personally disagree with and have similar thoughts to be honest) and then transform a mainstream political party into a vehicle for the expression of them. In hindsight its no surprise what has happened subsequently.

 

Using the Labour Party for those goals has been wrong. The Labour Party needs to represent a wide variety of views from the left and centre. And he has killed that.

 

 

 

 

[bendix]

21 hours ago, banjodeano said:

ok....i see you not got anything to offer ..sigh

You can't debate with zealots banjo. When your key argument is that Labour's problems are to do with either fake news or 'jewish money' i'm afraid it's like dealing with such blind devotion seen only amongst Trump's base.

 

Labour admits it has a problem?  Nahhhh . . they are pandering to the media / jewish conspiracy.

 

It's clear to me that you are a part of the problem which, sadly, has made Labour unelectable for at least the next 20 years.  That would be sad, but i have a hunch you and Corbyn prefers it that way.  Perpectual protest against evil forces - the media, globalism, jewish bankers etc - is what defines you guys.

[banjodeano]

1 hour ago, bendix said:

You can't debate with zealots banjo. When your key argument is that Labour's problems are to do with either fake news or 'jewish money' i'm afraid it's like dealing with such blind devotion seen only amongst Trump's base.

 

Labour admits it has a problem?  Nahhhh . . they are pandering to the media / jewish conspiracy.

 

It's clear to me that you are a part of the problem which, sadly, has made Labour unelectable for at least the next 20 years.  That would be sad, but i have a hunch you and Corbyn prefers it that way.  Perpectual protest against evil forces - the media, globalism, jewish bankers etc - is what defines you guys.

At least i still believe in democracy,  people like you are so easily manipulated, you have been so manipulated that you even blindly accept it is okay to  have our democracy eroded, as you said you "you dont mind MP's being taken down".....i cant take anyone serious who makes such a stupid statement...

as for blind devotion to Corbyn, did you not notice that a few pages back that i actually said i didnt agree with him on certain issues?

please if you are going to debate with me, get your facts straight

[Anna B]

15 hours ago, alchresearch said:

 

This is what I don't understand.  I supported and voted Labour in every election from 1992 to 2010. 

 

In all that time my concern was with UK politics and getting the Tories out.  Jews, Israel and Zionism wasn't even on my list, and still isn't.  I don't recall any election leaflets in Sheffield concerning anything other than the other two parties.

 

And I don't understand this:
 

Labour conference: Members fill hall with Palestinian flags
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45634379

Don't we have enough things in the UK to care about?  Which country does the Labour party want to represent?

It wasn't on anybody's list until somebody decided it was a neat way to cause trouble for the Labour party.

There's the enemy within - plenty of Blairites would rather see Labour lose an election, than win with Corbyn at the helm. And then there's the  Tories and the Establishment, who will stoop to any level to see him smeared, villified and ridiculed in the public consciousness, aided and abetted by the media. Mud sticks, and they have no compunction about hurling it.

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Anna B

[banjodeano]

23 hours ago, alchresearch said:

 

This is what I don't understand.  I supported and voted Labour in every election from 1992 to 2010. 

 

In all that time my concern was with UK politics and getting the Tories out.  Jews, Israel and Zionism wasn't even on my list, and still isn't.  I don't recall any election leaflets in Sheffield concerning anything other than the other two parties.

 

And I don't understand this:
 

Labour conference: Members fill hall with Palestinian flags
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45634379

Don't we have enough things in the UK to care about?  Which country does the Labour party want to represent?

Its things like this that goes against right minded thinking people, there can not be many people who are not disturbed by this...

https://www.democracynow.org/2019/3/4/un_finds_israel_intentionally_shot_children?fbclid=IwAR2RYTtqAm-WelU6z-2q-PPyncxIP7zjqDud7nO6OjelnVzNLHlxzgY8dbE

U.N. Finds Israel Intentionally Shot Children, Journalists & the Disabled During Gaza

Protests

How come we dont see howls of protest about this? how come we dont see the Americans wanting to intervene because of human rights abuse?

[banjodeano]

On 07/03/2019 at 12:55, bendix said:

You proved my point perfectly there.

 

Typical Corbynite response.  There's no antisemitism; it's all been stirred up by those jews.

 

And here's the rub - that kind of line is delivered with absolutely no sense of irony.  

 

 

anyway, did you have a think about this question i asked you a while back.."

what do you think about the blairites wanting people suspended for standing by Chris Williamson (yet no guilty of anything)  just because they do not denounce him as being antisemitic" ...?

EDIT...

Apparently this video was posted by a former Labour Mayor on fb and by doing so he has been accused of antisemitism and suspended from the Labour Party pending investigation!

https://news.sky.com/video/george-galloway-labour-anti-semitism-issue-is-all-a-lie-11642728?fbclid=IwAR1r7CuENHMavBgwNFx-vkiFLp0vDUrD3d2g09GdZNgeP2h7RUr84BlpjMk

Edited March 9, 2019 by banjodeano

[the_bloke]

On 04/03/2019 at 13:52, banjodeano said:

Erm, of course it doesnt, why would it need  to state that? its just obvious that they are funding the party to help get them elected, i cant understand why you are even  arguing this point, common sense tells you that, well it does to most normal thinking  people, i'll ask my question again because you conveniently ignored it , "why else would the unions give the party money"?

Lets looka at your point B..

Watson is funded by Jewish donors, see here, it clearly shows who is funding him..

 

 

 

So now do you acknowledge Watson is funded by Jewish money? its there ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

and now we have to ask why they are funding him, and the rest of the labour friends of Israel who all seem to have a problem with Corbyn, its not hard to work out, you just need to join the dots up.

 

Incidentally i saw that  Israel lobby funders are backing breakaway British MPs, 

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/israel-lobby-funders-back-breakaway-british-mps

 

this further highlights my point that Jewish money is being put to use to stop labour getting to power.

David Garrard told newspapers he had already donated to the MPs who broke away from the opposition Labour Party and the ruling Conservative Party.

The Independent Group is expected to eventually register as a party.

Garrard has for many years been a major financial backer of Labour Friends of Israel, a front group for the Israeli embassy, and was recently appointed to its board.

 

Sorry, I've been a bit busy.

 

The first point; the unions fund Labour to exert influence over the policies of the party. It's in the link I gave you. It's down to the electorate to decide if the party is electable or not based upon the policies the party have, and considering Labour has lost three elections in a row, it's clear that the electorate thinks Labour policy isn't something they want in Government. The concept of a party being 'electable' is discussed here: https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2015/05/06/connecting-with-voters-the-secrets-to-electability-and-leade

 

The key points are; 'likability' of the leader, the leadership qualities of the leader, the values of the party, ability to trust the party and ultimately the electorate knowing what the party stands for. 

 

Unite pumping cash at Labour achieves none of those aims.

 

Your second point; Watson has money from Jewish donors, so what? Of course the Labour Friends of Israel has a problem with Corbyn, his beliefs don't match theirs. They want a two state system with Israel and Palestine, and Corbyn doesn't. That doesn't mean they want the party to not be elected does it? Why would the 70+ MPs in the group not want the party to be elected?

 

The Jewish theories sound more and more outlandish and simply further alienates the party from it's traditional voter base. Dave down the pub just wants to know if his tax credits are going to change and if he'll be out of pocket. He couldn't care less about Israel, Palestine or Jeremy Corbyn.