The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[alchresearch]

It seems the public didn't like the idea

 

Just 15% of people said he’d make a good leader

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/public-think-jeremy-corbyn-would-18971275

[hobinfoot]

On 15/08/2019 at 12:05, Flanker7 said:

 

Its all so personal for some! He said no such thing.

 

Corbyn clearly states that the Labour Party wants an alliance to stop a No Deal brexit .  AND  "to seek the confidence of the House for a strictly timed-limited temporary Government with the aim of calling a General Election. . . " 

 

Where the whole country would decide. I await Boris to submit himself to the judgement of the same number of people. 

I’ve said in another thread to  do with brexit. Parliament had the chance to vote for the withdrawal agreement knowing fully about the EU stating it wouldn’t open it up again. Corbyn whipped the Labour Party to vote against  it really sticks in my throat listening to who were against a deal clearly knowing it was the only one on the table now complaining about a no deal brexit.

[Top Cats Hat]

12 minutes ago, hobinfoot said:

Corbyn whipped the Labour Party to vote against  it really sticks in my throat listening to who were against a deal clearly knowing it was the only one on the table now complaining about a no deal brexit.

Not at all.

 

Many Labour (and some Conservative) MPs voted against the withdrawal agreement in the hope and expectation that the whole sorry mess will end in the UK remaining in the EU, which I would say is now the most likely outcome.

 

It is now either no-deal or remain.

[Longcol]

2 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

It is now either no-deal or remain.

I think you're being over optimistic - it's some sort of deal based on May's or no deal. There isn't time for anything else - certainly given the glacial speed Corbyn operates at whilst trying to find another fence to sit on - and can't see parliament voting for anything but another extension to Artcle 50 to give time for a deal to be struck. Certainly can't see a majority in favour of another referendum.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Longcol

[Pettytom]

15 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Certainly can't see a majority in favour of another referendum.

That’s the big problem.

 

There is clearly a parliamentary majority to oppose no deal. Unfortunately, they are hopelessly split about what to do next.

 

Some want a GE.  Some want an in/ out referendum. Some want a no deal/ May’s deal referendum. Meanwhile, Corbyn just wants to be PM for a week.

 

The smart money has to be on a cosmetic tweak to the backstop and the May deal going through.

[Top Cats Hat]

13 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Certainly can't see a majority in favour of another referendum.

There is and never has been  any need for a second referendum.

 

This is how it is most likely to play out.

 

1. Vote of no confidence.

 

2. General Election.

 

3. Labour stands on a remain platform.

 

so either

 

a) The Conservatives/Farage win and we all go to hell in a handcart or

 

b) Labour wins or forms a government with Lib Dems/SNP/Greens whatever.

 

The election of a Remain government or Remain coalition means that Article 50 can be revoked without the need for a second referendum.

[Longcol]

10 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

There is and never has been  any need for a second referendum.

 

This is how it is most likely to play out.

 

1. Vote of no confidence.

 

2. General Election.

 

3. Labour stands on a remain platform.

 

so either

 

a) The Conservatives/Farage win and we all go to hell in a handcart or

 

b) Labour wins or forms a government with Lib Dems/SNP/Greens whatever.

 

The election of a Remain government or Remain coalition means that Article 50 can be revoked without the need for a second referendum.

If there is another GE;

 

It would have to be held PDQ - and likely article 50 would have to be "extended" to beyond 31 October.

No guarantee Labour will stand on a remain platform. Corbyn will try to fudge something.

 

Even in the case of a "remain" government I would think that they will feel obliged to hold a second referendum

[Top Cats Hat]

12 minutes ago, Longcol said:

No guarantee Labour will stand on a remain platform. Corbyn will try to fudge something.

 

 

Even in the case of a "remain" government I would think that they will feel obliged to hold a second referendum

In September, Labour needs to vote at conference to become a wholeheartedly Remain party.

 

If Corbyn equivocates in any way, then Labour needs to get rid of him and get rid of him quickly. In fact the only way I can see Labour winning an electoral majority is without Corbyn, as the next election will be purely about Brexit and Corbyn has absolutely no credibility as a Remain leader.

 

If a Remain party wins a general election there is really no need to hold a second referendum. Let’s not forget that there has never been a majority in the UK to leave the EU, so a Remain government’s first job would be to pass a bill in Parliament to revoke Article 50 and rejoin the real world.

 

[Robin-H]

4 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

In September, Labour needs to vote at conference to become a wholeheartedly Remain party.

 

If Corbyn equivocates in any way, then Labour needs to get rid of him and get rid of him quickly. In fact the only way I can see Labour winning an electoral majority is without Corbyn, as the next election will be purely about Brexit and Corbyn has absolutely no credibility as a Remain leader.

 

If a Remain party wins a general election there is really no need to hold a second referendum. Let’s not forget that there has never been a majority in the UK to leave the EU, so a Remain government’s first job would be to pass a bill in Parliament to revoke Article 50 and rejoin the real world.

 

Although by that logic, there was never a majority in the UK to join the EU (or EC as it was then) in the first place. 

[Longcol]

14 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

In September, Labour needs to vote at conference to become a wholeheartedly Remain party.

 

If Corbyn equivocates in any way, then Labour needs to get rid of him and get rid of him quickly. In fact the only way I can see Labour winning an electoral majority is without Corbyn, as the next election will be purely about Brexit and Corbyn has absolutely no credibility as a Remain leader.

 

If a Remain party wins a general election there is really no need to hold a second referendum. Let’s not forget that there has never been a majority in the UK to leave the EU, so a Remain government’s first job would be to pass a bill in Parliament to revoke Article 50 and rejoin the real world.

 

There are far too many "ifs" for your statement "no deal or remain" to be the only outcomes.

 

And as I've said I'm pretty sure any remain party  coalition winnning a GE will feel obliged (rightly IMHO) to hold another rederendum - I can't see them winning a GE without that promise.