The Labour Party. All discussion here please

[crazyhorse]

On ‎30‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 18:15, Mister Gee said:

How do you feel about the person and party you voted for attracting fascists? 
 

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/28/far-right-group-britain-first-says-5000-members-joined-tories-11970687/

 

Unfortunately, this comment highlights the extent of the problem with the people now running Labour...

...the instinctive reaction being to label anyone who has a different point of view as a fascist.

...and as eccoNoob pointed out, oblivious to the fact that the Labour Party now has it's fair share of fascists at the other end of the political spectrum.

The knee jerk response is now unfortunately baked into the party and the ideological purity is quite scary.

It will also never get you elected in this country, which has a proud tradition of mocking the political extremes.

 

I personally blame social media and the isolation of people these days for this inability to see any other point of view.

I dare say I am the only person this week you have encountered, with a different point of view to your own...and so I am shouted down.

I am really glad my smartphone stays turned off.

Apart from this forum, I am glad I live in the analog world and come from the age when people talked with others and didn't just shout them down.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand the point you are making, but I think you are being far too self righteous here...the world is far more than black and white.

[crazyhorse]

On ‎30‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 18:15, Mister Gee said:

How do you feel about the person and party you voted for attracting fascists? 
 

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/28/far-right-group-britain-first-says-5000-members-joined-tories-11970687/

 

Do you actually care why I voted for Blair repeatedly and now vote for Johnson?

Aren't you interested in finding out why I switched?

If I voted for Labour in the past, surely there must be a glimmer of warmth in my cold, dark Tory soul?

A fire that can be rekindled?

 

In reality, I suspect you have no interest in me as a potential Labour voter whatsoever...as the project now is to remould the Labour Party into a paragon of virtue.

All other considerations (e.g. winning an election) being secondary.

[Ridgewalk]

The fact that so many appear to accept the " fact" of anti semitism in the Labour Party in the absence of any  evidence tells you how gullible to fake news many people are. I believe the " evidence" amounts to something like 0.000015 % of Labour Party members.

 

 

 

 

[L00b]

17 minutes ago, crazyhorse said:

Do you actually care why I voted for Blair repeatedly and now vote for Johnson?

Aren't you interested in finding out why I switched?

If I voted for Labour in the past, surely there must be a glimmer of warmth in my cold, dark Tory soul?

A fire that can be rekindled?

 

In reality, I suspect you have no interest in me as a potential Labour voter whatsoever...as the project now is to remould the Labour Party into a paragon of virtue.

All other considerations (e.g. winning an election) being secondary.

Actually, my curiosity is piqued, given your list of Jarvis qualities in post #9700 and yet your Conservative vote (since Johnson doesn't posses much, if any, of these qualities himself).

 

So go on, why Conservative, instead of another alternative (excluding Labour, as I can discern that Corbynism might have proven too extreme for you)?

 

(PS: for the avoidance of doubt, I don't particularly care about whether you would ever vote Labour or not again; this is about your personal politics, not rosettes)

Edited January 2, 2020 by L00b

[Ridgewalk]

On 25/12/2019 at 10:53, Baron99 said:

Dan Jarvis, potential Lab leader? No chance. 

 

He doesn't fit with the hastily conveined focus group decision, that have already decided that they need a flat cap wearing, kestrel holding, whippet walking, Northern woman who sounds like Lily Savage & who works behind the bar in a working men's club.

 

Jarvis' has also not just fell out Uni after studying PPE, straight into politics but has had a proper job beforehand. 

 

The proper job also might be an issue to many of the current members of the Labour Party - ex Para? 

That caricature would appear to fit lots of working class Conservative or Brexit voters. You are very contemptuous of working class people aren't you ?

[Hotmale 1954]

I can maybe understand Lib Dems, Greens etc voting for Labour at times, or Labour people voting Lib Dem / Greens at times, but how the Hell can a (proper)Tory ever vote for Labour, and a (proper) Labour Supporter ever contemplate voting for the Conservatives?

You CANNOT EVER be a Socialist, with Socialist values and vote, even in your wildest dreams, for a Capitalist money driven, profit making Party that works to prevent or destroy everything you've believed in, and craved for, all of your life.

 

If your brain can swing from one belief to another belief every time the wind changes, then you need to see someone. You have no firm belief in yourself, your country, or your compatriots. You're quick to support people who stand shoulder to shoulder in times of conflict though. They are not inferiors then. They aren't Lefties, Communists, Scroungers or idle then. When it suits, they become Heroes.

It matters not who is piloting the ship, the ship, ultimately, has the same course, the same crew, and the same destination.

 

If you have always voted Tory, and voted Tory this time, then I applaud your loyalty.

I disagree greatly with your idea of how Society should function. I, I, I, me, me me, mine mine, mine, to me, is a horrible, selfish, greedy way to treat other members of Society.

You have to have the money to comfortably negotiate a Conservative Government, but unfortunately, millions of people seem to be of the opinion that they are 'better than them down the road' and are misguided enough to consider themselves as 'a higher class'.

The current Government will soon put these people in their place. At the moment, they're behaving like a fine Labour Government, but it won't last, and they'll soon start to drop things on the populace from a great height, as they have done every time they've had power (which is about 100 years too long in my opinion).

The 'people' will continue to work 40 to 50 hours a week (to manage) whilst the Tories create ever more Billionaire Gang Masters.

 

To say I'm disappointed with the British (English) Electorate is a huge understatement.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Hotmale 1954

[carosio]

46 minutes ago, Hotmale 1954 said:

 

 You're quick to support people who stand shoulder to shoulder in times of conflict though. They are not inferiors then. They aren't Lefties, Communists, Scroungers or idle then. When it suits, they become Heroes.

It matters not who is piloting the ship, the ship, ultimately, has the same course, the same crew, and the same destination.

 

To say I'm disappointed with the British (English) Electorate is a huge understatement.

 

 

Those you mentioned would be Heroes, but the electorate's suspicion was that they didn't think Mr Corbyn was the ideal person to go round rattling a tin for them.

[alchresearch]

Not the worst choice I suppose.  Jess, Clive or Yvette would get my vote though.

 

Long Bailey (aka Wrong Daily) would be a disaster. She's a Corbyn apologist and has had some dreadful interviews where she was torn apart.

 

[altus]

14 minutes ago, alchresearch said:

Not the worst choice I suppose.  Jess, Clive or Yvette would get my vote though.

 

Long Bailey (aka Wrong Daily) would be a disaster. She's a Corbyn apologist and has had some dreadful interviews where she was torn apart.

 

Adding to your post, the data comes from a YouGov poll of Labour party members. (The figures on that page are higher because they exclude the 12% of don't knows.)

 

Also notable is that after all the rounds where the less successful candidates are eliminated it ends up with Starmer on 61% and Long-Bailey on 39%.

[alchresearch]

Sigh.  Another three months with Corbyn at the helm.

 

Labour leadership: NEC decides contest to last three months, with result announced Saturday 4 April

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/jan/06/labour-leadership-jess-phillips-clarifies-brexit-stance-saying-she-cant-see-party-backing-remain-at-next-election-live-news

 

The NEC says:

 

Quote

The ballot will run from 21 February to 2 April, with the results announced on Saturday 4 April.

 

We are by far the largest political party in the UK with well over half a million members. We want as many of our members and supporters to take part, so it has been designed to be open, fair and democratic.

So why can we have a national election of millions of voters able to vote within one day and have the result within the next, yet the NEC needs to take weeks for just half a million?