Ukip. All discussion here please.

[chalga]

I can put up with it no problems Chalga. What I cant understand is why the others are any better. I just cannot see how you could possibly think they are.

 

I've not said they are,Farage has said that he is different to them.

[gimp27]

I've not said they are,Farage has said that he is different to them.

 

We know hand on heart that he is exactly the same. They all are. Its their policies that differ, so could we vote for the policies we hope will get passed? Of course we will, but theres no guarantee our dreams will come true, and we as voters will have to live with it, for 4 years until the next election comes along, and another leader looks believable. Its lose lose for us, and win win for them. I dont wish to argue with anyone regarding politics, but I will scream till im blue in my brown face that the others are truly no better than Farage.

[andyofborg]

What I cant understand is why the others are any better. I just cannot see how you could possibly think they are.

 

I dont think anyone is saying they are any better, just that despite the beer and chirpy essex boy act, nigel farage is just as much part of the establishment as everyone else is

[gimp27]

I dont think anyone is saying they are any better, just that despite the beer and chirpy essex boy act, nigel farage is just as much part of the establishment as everyone else is

 

I agree Andy, but im saying he isnt any worse. Its all about policy choice.

[mjw47]

It is beginning to appear that Ukip voters support Farage not because he is different - they admit he is just as big a BS merchant as the others - but they think he and his party should be given the chance to bugger things up simply because they haven't had the chance to do so in the past.

 

"The old parties are useless, so is the new, but at least they're new."

 

If Farage is the answer, God alone knows what the question is.

 

Every time you see him he's got a pint in his hand, a stupid grin on his face and looks exactly like someone playing the part of a rival dodgy secondhand car salesman in an episode of Minder.

 

His party have the worst voting record of any UK party in Europe, but have no problem accepting the salary and expenses despite their inability to actually do the job.

 

The only benefit we may get from these chancers involvement is if it serves as a kick up the jacksey to the other parties.

[gimp27]

It is beginning to appear that Ukip voters support Farage not because he is different - they admit he is just as big a BS merchant as the others - but they think he and his party should be given the chance to bugger things up simply because they haven't had the chance to do so in the past.

 

"The old parties are useless, so is the new, but at least they're new."

 

If Farage is the answer, God alone knows what the question is.

 

Every time you see him he's got a pint in his hand, a stupid grin on his face and looks exactly like someone playing the part of a rival dodgy secondhand car salesman in an episode of Minder.

 

His party have the worst voting record of any UK party in Europe, but have no problem accepting the salary and expenses despite their inability to actually do the job.

 

The only benefit we may get from these chancers involvement is if it serves as a kick up the jacksey to the other parties.

 

Yes, because the others are really really good, arent they? Come on, keep up!! Its agreed NF is the same as the others, but the others cannot be trusted either. So where does that leave you? Oh, I know......lets have another 4 years of the same. Promises of a referendum if we get in???? Yeah, right. Does anyone actually think before they speak anymore? Because the current mob dont, and are more anti-people than is possible.

[chalga]

Yes, because the others are really really good, arent they? Come on, keep up!! Its agreed NF is the same as the others, but the others cannot be trusted either. So where does that leave you? Oh, I know......lets have another 4 years of the same. Promises of a referendum if we get in???? Yeah, right. Does anyone actually think before they speak anymore? Because the current mob dont, and are more anti-people than is possible.

 

You make a list of all the UKIP policies and say how they are going to directly make your life better if they are applied,nows your chance to sell Farage..........away you go.

[rainbow2411]

You make a list of all the UKIP policies and say how they are going to directly make your life better if they are applied,nows your chance to sell Farage..........away you go.

Here a few for you to critique-

NHS free at the point of delivery and time of need for all UK residents.

Stop further use of PFI in the NHS and encourage local authorities to buy out their PFI contracts early where this is affordable.

GPs’ surgeries to open at least one evening per week, where there is demand for it.

Oppose plans to charge patients for visiting their GP.

Opposes the sale of NHS data to third parties.

Foreign health service professionals coming to work in the NHS are properly qualified and can speak English to a standard acceptable to the profession.

Amend working time rules to give trainee doctors, surgeons and medics the proper environment to train and practise.

A duty on all health service staff to report low standards of care.

[gimp27]

You make a list of all the UKIP policies and say how they are going to directly make your life better if they are applied,nows your chance to sell Farage..........away you go.

 

I do have one or two, and the main one is the EU. The sooner we are out of it, and free trade begins, the better. It works fine for the USA and China. Now you can carry on, and tell me that it wont work. Thats what usually happens. Also, immigration levels. Has UKIP ever said they would close the borders? Nope, but if we werent in the EU, we wouldnt have to accept the terms of level. I suppose you are also going to tell me that this wouldnt work either.

People are not stupid, and some people can actually make their minds up on policy, not the man. If you wish to be in the category of "X is nice, and isnt nasty to Y" then you dip your bread in, because "isms" are a thing of the past, and people are no longer afraid to be politically incorrect, and are more concerned about the future of their childrens children.

 

---------- Post added 12-10-2014 at 22:36 ----------

 

Here a few for you to critique-

NHS free at the point of delivery and time of need for all UK residents.

Stop further use of PFI in the NHS and encourage local authorities to buy out their PFI contracts early where this is affordable.

GPs’ surgeries to open at least one evening per week, where there is demand for it.

Oppose plans to charge patients for visiting their GP.

Opposes the sale of NHS data to third parties.

Foreign health service professionals coming to work in the NHS are properly qualified and can speak English to a standard acceptable to the profession.

Amend working time rules to give trainee doctors, surgeons and medics the proper environment to train and practise.

A duty on all health service staff to report low standards of care.

 

Dont forget free trade. Very important!

[chalga]

Here a few for you to critique-

NHS free at the point of delivery and time of need for all UK residents.

Stop further use of PFI in the NHS and encourage local authorities to buy out their PFI contracts early where this is affordable.

GPs’ surgeries to open at least one evening per week, where there is demand for it.

Oppose plans to charge patients for visiting their GP.

Opposes the sale of NHS data to third parties.

Foreign health service professionals coming to work in the NHS are properly qualified and can speak English to a standard acceptable to the profession.

Amend working time rules to give trainee doctors, surgeons and medics the proper environment to train and practise.

A duty on all health service staff to report low standards of care.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ukip’s assault on the NHS would ensure its extinction

The public needs to know that Ukip would sell off the lucrative parts of the NHS quicker than the present government given half a chance

 

 

 

 

Kailash Chand

theguardian.com, Thursday 2 October 2014 07.00 BST

 

 

 

 

A little known fact about Ukip is that it believes as passionately about privatising the NHS as it does about Britain leaving the EU and blocking immigrants from settling here.

 

I arrived in the UK in 1978 with little in my pocket. Since then, I have built a life for my family here, and now every member of it devotes our lives to the NHS. My wife worked for many years as a GP, and now my son works as a cardiologist for the NHS. I am one of the lucky ones. Having trained in India, I went on to have a successful and rewarding 30-year career as a GP and became chair of Tameside and Glossop primary care trust. I also have an active role in the British Medical Association and am currently deputy chair of the BMA council. One of the proudest moments of my life was being awarded an OBE for services to the NHS. The NHS was built with the help of immigrant workers and professionals from across the world. As is most of the construction and transport sector.

 

Policies proposed by Ukip could prevent much-needed specialists from working in Britain, when in fact they are vital for the future of the NHS, public services and the economy. I don’t intend to patronise readers by preaching the benefits of immigration. But remember who caused our country the most problems: the bankers who plunged us into economic disaster, or Indian doctors and nurses?

 

The prime minister’s election pledge to safeguard the financial envelope of the NHS is very welcome, but it has to be underpinned with more detail for it to reassure me and our hard working NHS staff that this will genuinely be carried out if his party wins the election. It will offer little reassurance to many, including those working under the constraints of the Nicholson challenge to find £20bn of efficiency savings. David Cameron has a trust deficit when it comes to the NHS. Before the last election he said there would be no top down reorganisation, and then launched one so big it consumed £3bn.

 

Ukip, however, would sell off the lucrative parts of the NHS quicker than the present government given half a chance. Private firms and charities will be encouraged to bid for contracts, and the party would implement a “patient passport” policy that would allow patients to choose where they get treatment, or even take 60% of the cost of operations out of the NHS to go private.

 

In addition, patients could obtain “health credit vouchers” to opt out of NHS care altogether and buy insurance policies from private companies.

 

Ukip is known for making its policy on the hoof. But it was Ukip that said the NHS was not fit for the 21st century. It was Ukip that promised to impose £40bn of cuts to our NHS; that it would franchise out key services including hospitals and GP surgeries to companies and charities. The party is in favour of charging patients who require A&E treatment, but who don’t need treating within two hours, and it will promote mutual providers, including GPs, to charge a flat fee to see non-emergency cases. It also wants to make sure that when people register with a GP they can demonstrate that they will be able to pay off upfront fees over a period of time.

 

If the NHS is on the brink of extinction now, it will surely be put in a graveyard if Ukip has its way. In June, Paul Nuttall MEP, the vice-chair of Ukip, posted on his own website: “I would argue that the very existence of the NHS stifles competition, and as competition drives quality and choice, innovation and improvements are restricted. Therefore, I believe, as long as the NHS is the ‘sacred cow’ of British politics, the longer the British people will suffer with a second-rate health service.” He has since taken it down.

 

Ukip is now a political movement with elected members and considerable fundraising ability to propagate policies such as privatisation of the NHS.

Edited October 12, 2014 by chalga