Ukip. All discussion here please.

[mjw47]

while it is true to say that the Dutch did do rather well out of the 1667 Treaty of Breda, the British had the big solace of having their conquest of New Netherland confirmed. New Netherland did not consist solely of New York anyway, but also Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Delaware too, making it massively more sizable than Suriname which is only just a little bit bigger than New York state, the USA's 27th largest, is in any case.

 

My original point was simply to try to point out to Tommo68 that the hubris regarding 'we generally WIN' could do with turning down a notch.

 

Whilst the English/British have won quite a few wars, they have lost a few as well.

 

The Battle of Medway was one that was lost.

 

New York wasn't relevant to that point, as it was taken over three years previously.

 

England/Britain have quite an admirable military history, and in my view it doesn't need embellishing by over stating the case.

 

Comments such as "we won the war" and " we won the Battle of Waterloo" are cringe worthy and embarrassing.

 

'We' played a part in both of those events, but in both cases other countries played more of a part.

 

When your contribution is significant and praiseworthy it diminishes the honour if you then try and claim more credit than that which is due.

[Stan Tamudo]

...................

Edited October 26, 2014 by Stan Tamudo

[Frederick1]

Don't get you Stan???

 

---------- Post added 26-10-2014 at 11:24 ----------

 

As this is a UKIP page and with the Rochester and Strood Bye-Election less than four weeks away it may be a good time to mention Arc Manche which Labour have been discussing with the EU.

Do you want portions of Southern England giving away to the French?

[Tommo68]

My original point was simply to try to point out to Tommo68 that the hubris regarding 'we generally WIN' could do with turning down a notch.

 

Whilst the English/British have won quite a few wars, they have lost a few as well.

 

The Battle of Medway was one that was lost.

 

 

The Medway incident was a raidwas a raid.

 

Are you confusing battles with wars?

 

england has lost a number of battles but usually when it was involved in war it prevailed.

 

England was not really an entity before the Norman Conquest.

 

The outcomes of the crusades were never really resolved possibly a contributory cause to some of the conflicts there in modern times.

The 100 years war did result in some loss of teritory in what is now mostly or perhaps all in france.

 

Since 1453 England has lost the American War of Independence and the often forgotten Korean war's outcome was basically a draw.

 

What other wars do you think england was involved in during the last 500 years and has lost please, and by lost I mean actually surrendered?

.

.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Tommo68

[Longcol]

Didn't the Scots, Welsh and Irish fight in these wars (as well as members of commonwealth countries, USA, other allies)?

 

---------- Post added 26-10-2014 at 13:00 ----------

 

Don't get you Stan???

 

---------- Post added 26-10-2014 at 11:24 ----------

 

As this is a UKIP page and with the Rochester and Strood Bye-Election less than four weeks away it may be a good time to mention Arc Manche which Labour have been discussing with the EU.

Do you want portions of Southern England giving away to the French?

 

Since when has Arc Manche had anything to do with giving away portions of the south to France?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_Manche

[mjw47]

The Medway incident was a raidwas a raid.

 

Are you confusing battles with wars?

 

england has lost a number of battles but usually when it was involved in war it prevailed.

 

England was not really an entity before the Norman Conquest.

 

The outcomes of the crusades were never really resolved possibly a contributory cause to some of the conflicts there in modern times.

The 100 years war did result in some loss of teritory in what is now mostly or perhaps all in france.

 

Since 1453 England has lost the American War of Independence and the often forgotten Korean war's outcome was basically a draw.

 

What other wars do you think england was involved in during the last 500 years and has lost please, and by lost I mean actually surrendered?

.

.

 

No I'm not confusing battles and wars Medway was a decisive battle in a war in which the Dutch were victorious.

 

Agincourt was a battle won by the English in a war that the French were victorious.

As for some loss of territory are you serious? The Normans who had conquered England laid claim to both Normandy and England.

 

Under Henry II huge areas of France were taken under control and at one time over a third of France was under English control.

 

By the end of the 100 years war England was left with Calais, which was taken by the French in 1558.

 

As for England not being an entity before 1066 it became an entity in 827 when King Egbert of Wessex took the submission of King Eanred of Northumberland at Dore village, there's a shield with details in Dore village churchyard.

 

That's 239 years before the Battle of Hastings.

 

Regarding other wars won or lost you don't always need a surrender, actions speak louder than words.

 

Following the Irish War of Independence British Troops assembled in Dublin Castle parade ground, where the Normans had started their rule in Ireland 800 years before.

 

They then played the last post, lowered the Union flag, handed the keys over to Michael Collins, and marched down to Dublin docks to sail away and not return.

 

Anyway you want to cook it, that's a defeat.

 

Finally, my father served through the Second War, he spent five days on the beach at Dunkirk in May/June 1940.

 

We were watching the TV news together in 1980 when they showed the commemoration parades for the 40th anniversary, there were bands, flags and speeches.

 

My father looked at me with a wry smile and said "Well, I don't know what the rest of the lads were doing son, but me, your old fella, I was running away."

 

He was a member of the BEF and they together with their French and Dutch Allies were driven into the sea by the Germans.

 

Had the Americans kept out of it, and Germany maintained it's non aggression pact with the Russians we would have been mopped up at Hitlers leisure ,as and when he could be bothered.

[roosterboost]

I should imagine UKIP will make capital out of this. http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/west-midlands-police-report-reveals-7948902

[Frederick1]

Didn't the Scots, Welsh and Irish fight in these wars (as well as members of commonwealth countries, USA, other allies)?

 

---------- Post added 26-10-2014 at 13:00 ----------

 

 

Since when has Arc Manche had anything to do with giving away portions of the south to France?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_Manche

 

Since the Labour Party started discussing it with the EU Longcol! The Tories oppose it (at least for the moment!) but the point I was making was how much more "underhand" goes on that we don't know about?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/244206/EU=-wants-to-merge-uk-with-france

Even with their own flag and "clown" cycle path! Unbelievable!

[Longcol]

Since the Labour Party started discussing it with the EU Longcol! The Tories oppose it (at least for the moment!) but the point I was making was how much more "underhand" goes on that we don't know about?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/244206/EU=-wants-to-merge-uk-with-france

Even with their own flag and "clown" cycle path! Unbelievable!

 

Link doesn't work. If it was in the Express it was probably made up anyway.

[retep]

Since the Labour Party started discussing it with the EU Longcol! The Tories oppose it (at least for the moment!) but the point I was making was how much more "underhand" goes on that we don't know about?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/244206/EU=-wants-to-merge-uk-with-france

Even with their own flag and "clown" cycle path! Unbelievable!

 

This one,

"

Millions for fantasy land

 

EURO MPs want to hand millions of pounds of taxpayers’ cash to a region that exists only on paper.

 

By: Kirsty BuchananPublished: Sun, July 3, 2011

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Euro MPs want to hand millions of pounds of taxpayers cash to a region that exists only on paper

Euro MPs want to hand millions of pounds of taxpayers’ cash to a region that exists only on paper []

They are calling for structural funding for Arc Manche, part of a European Union fantasy land.

 

Drawn up by Eurocrats in a bizarre project to break down national frontiers, Arc Manche combines parts of southern England and northern France.

 

Structural funding is an annual pot of £314billion (€347billion) handed to national governments to help deprived regions.

 

The money is used on major infrastructure and job creation schemes. Until now Arc Manche has only got its hands on small arts grants to bankroll obscure cultural projects such as touring clown troupes and films about fairies. However if the proposal wins European Commission backing, the EU will be able to by-pass Westminster.

 

The proposal, buried in an obscure report, was spotted by East Midlands Tory MEP Roger Helmer. Arc Manche, which has its own councillors, bureaucrats, emblem and “President”, is one of 13 regions in the European Union.

 

Arc Manche combines parts of southern England and northern France

Mr Helmer said: “Those structures are deliberately transnational and deliberately bypass national governments.

 

“Again and again we see the EU undertaking small steps that it can describe as insignificant but they all lead the same way, to a Europe of regions governed by Brussels.”

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/256473/Millions-for-fantasy-land