Ukip. All discussion here please.

[JFKvsNixon]

no im not,your just a fool on an internet forum.

 

I originally asked you to put your ludicrous claim into context, by asking how often are people's operations cancelled in Sheffield so a private operation can be carried out?

 

It went downhill from there on in.

 

I'll give you another chance, can you back up your claim? Or should we file it under unsubstantiated scaremongering?

[Ellco]

That link is about Eltham in SE London. It has nothing to do with Doncaster.

 

As for coming second, if Miliband has 50% of the vote then it doesn't matter how many Tories switch. UKIP came second with 12% in the Barnsley Central by-election. Labour got 60%. UKIP came second with 21% in the Rotherham by-election. Labour got 46%. UKIP will get nowhere near Miliband. It won't even be a target seat for them.

 

Your going to have to get more I.T. educated if you want to continually comment without knowing the facts. The poll is out at 13.00 today.

 

I'm not baby sitting you any more..

 

---------- Post added 27-11-2014 at 12:23 ----------

 

Don't strain your neurone on my behalf, Ellco, please.

 

I'm perfectly able, and always willing, to answer questions put to me

Certainly

 

– UKIP will ensure the NHS is free at the point of delivery and time of need for all UK residents.

 

L00b: the NHS currently is free at the point of delivery, and the main parties have the same stated aim, so that's a free beer (redundant) promise. All the same, that proposal contradicts the "We will ensure that visitors to the UK, and migrants until they have paid NI for five years, have NHS-approved private health insurance as a condition of entry to the UK" proposal: why should migrants bother, since -under UK laws governing UK residency- migrants will be considered "UK residents" long before that 5 year is up. Might UKIP have been meaning UK 'nationals', rather than 'residents'? Or is it a case of not properly thinking through the interdependency of these proposals?

 

– We will stop further use of PFI in the NHS and encourage local authorities to buy out their PFI contracts early where this is affordable.

 

L00b: I agree to stopping further use of PFIs, the problem is what to replace them with, considering the Gvt's shrinking income and budgets. In that context, is UKIP therefore going to increase Councils' budgets back up to buy these PFIs? Last I heard Councils were still shedding jobs by the armful and haemorrhaging budget lines. Until UKIP explains more on the budget issue, that promise is just wishlist territory: sounds good, can't be done (regrettably).

 

– We will ensure that GPs’ surgeries are open at least one evening per week, where there is demand for it.

 

L00b: our local surgery (Larwood, Notts) has been opened 6 days a week and late (08:00-21:00) 3 nights a week for years. They're going to 5 late nights shortly. They're not the only such surgery, by far (we have several close friends working in the NHS, including in North Notts and South Yorks surgeries). Another free beer promise.

 

– UKIP opposes plans to charge patients for visiting their GP.

 

L00b:Whose plans are those, then? Links please, before I can comment further. In the meantime, sounds like baseless scaremongering.

 

–We will ensure that visitors to the UK, and migrants until they have paid NI for five years, have NHS-approved private health insurance as a condition of entry to the UK, saving the NHS £2bn pa. UKIP will commit to spending £200m of the £2bn saving to end hospital car parking charges in England.

 

L00b: Has anyone at UKIP ever read this before? The regulatory provisions are in place and the NHS does charge those not properly entitled already, and has long done so. I agree that the NHS needs to get better at it, that said.

 

– We will replace Monitor and the Care Quality Commission with elected county health boards to be more responsive scrutineers of local health services. These will be able to inspect health services and take evidence from whistle-blowers.

 

L00b: See my point above re. Councils jobs and funding. Besides that: so, the promise is to replace one structure with another, to do the same job......Colour me unimpressed, but interested to hear more about it, and how is this change would actually improve things, rather than simply politicise the NHS further and needlessly, like PCCs have politicised Police forces further and needlessly.

 

– UKIP opposes the sale of NHS data to third parties.

 

L00b: Agree fully with that. However, refer my point about NHS funding again. This practice is morally-dubious, but easy and large money, so it's a case of the devil and the deep blue sea. After all, many peeps haven't had any problems with their banks, car/home insurers, social media hosts <etc.> selling some of their personal data for a long while now. Maybe I should also remind readers at this stage, that the Gvt has already put a system in place allowing people to opt out of having their data sold to third parties.

 

– We will ensure foreign health service professionals coming to work in the NHS are properly qualified and can speak English to a standard acceptable to the profession.

 

L00b:Will UKIP also ensure that patients who come for diagnosis can also speak English to a standard understandable by the profession? Joke aside, that's long been the hiring standard, so another free beer promise, an this one clearly designed to appeal to the more xenophobic bigoted amongst its target audience.

 

– UKIP will amend working time rules to give trainee doctors, surgeons and medics the proper environment to train and practise.

 

L00b:Already addressed in earlier posts, with which I fully agree. This proposal clearly shows UKIP is completely unfamiliar with the standard medical and surgical training regimen in the UK (and most other West European countries providing heavily- or entirely-subsidised healthcare services to aging populations).

 

– There will be a duty on all health service staff to report low standards of care.

 

L00b: Like current UK law already provides for, and which the Gvt is also already working on improving? That'll be another free beer promise, then.

 

Over to you Jeffrey

 

You don't seem to have said a lot there in content. Lots of words though. The point raised that UKIP want to privatize the NHS. That is obviously bonkers.

[Xt500]

I originally asked you to put your ludicrous claim into context, by asking how often are people's operations cancelled in Sheffield so a private operation can be carried out?

 

It went downhill from there on in.

 

I'll give you another chance, can you back up your claim? Or should we file it under unsubstantiated scaremongering?

 

Ok so do tell us on what basis,you say it ISNT happening seen as your so sure that the information on the link is wrong,and im wrong despite seeing it for myself.

 

Like i said,your a fool that cannot hold an intelligent debate without some daft links that only go to show how unintelligent you are.

[Ellco]

Lord Ashcroft will be releasing his marginal polls today but has added Doncaster (Miliband's seat), Sheffield Hallam (Cleggs seat) and Thanet South (Nigel's target seat) as a bonus set of polls

[JFKvsNixon]

Ok so do tell us on what basis,you say it ISNT happening seen as your so sure that the information on the link is wrong,and im wrong despite seeing it for myself.

 

Like i said,your a fool that cannot hold an intelligent debate without some daft links that only go to show how unintelligent you are.

 

So you're seeing operations being cancelled here in Sheffield due to private operations being carried out? Care to explain how?

 

By the way, using the words 8 grand, will not constitute as being evidence to back up your claim.

[L00b]

You don't seem to have said a lot there in content. Lots of words though.

Thank you for such insightful brilliance. Did you really have to quote my post in full, if all you were going to do was to stick to UKippers' usual 1-short-sentence contribution format?

The point raised that UKIP want to privatize the NHS. That is obviously bonkers.

That was not a point raised by Jeffrey, nor one considered in the post which you quoted. Edited November 27, 2014 by L00b

[Xt500]

So you're seeing operations being cancelled here in Sheffield due to private operations being carried out? Care to explain how?

 

By the way, using the words 8 grand, will not constitute as being evidence to back up your claim.

 

Who is it you think your talking to you idiot!

[JFKvsNixon]

Who is it you think your talking to you idiot!

 

Someone with anger issues, who makes claims that they cannot substantiate?

[SnailyBoy]

Ok so do tell us on what basis,you say it ISNT happening seen as your so sure that the information on the link is wrong,and im wrong despite seeing it for myself.

 

Like i said,your a fool that cannot hold an intelligent debate without some daft links that only go to show how unintelligent you are.

 

If you hold a position, the onus is on you to provide the evidence, not demand for it to be disproven.

 

That's a simple debating principal

[janie48]

Regarding the policies of UKIP on health care and the NHS, I've noticed on their website recently there isn't any mention of their plan to return to traditional nursing and re-introduce State Enrolled Nurse training.

 

It was on there a few months ago I know it was, because I looked after reading something about this plan in the press

 

Do they really know what their policies are? they seem to be so inconsistent.