Zamo Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 With a couple of honourable exceptions, I get the distinct impression from most UKIP supporters that they don't care if UKIP want to try to diminish the N.H.S, or hammer the low paid (even though their most vocal supporters can't afford private health insurance, because they are low paid). They vote UKIP because UKIP are outspoken about immigrants. The majority of UKIP supporters will vote for them because of their policies on the EU and immigration. They don't care much about their other policies because, frankly, they are irrelevant. The very best UKIP can do at the next GE is to hold the balance of power. That means they will trade their vote and, in return for support all the other policies of the main party with who'm they form a government (unlikely to be anyone other than the Tories), they will get a referendum on EU membership and tightening of immigration rules. You cannot sway UKIP support by challenging UKIP on anything other than EU membership and immigration because those are the only policies they really care about. The same principle applies when you attack individuals for their failings... doesn't matter if UKIP get us a vote on EU membership and tighter immigration controls. That's probably why lots of racists like UKIP. UKIP want to implement a selective immigration policy to minimise the social impact of mass immigration and to maximise the financial benefits from immigration. It is what most people in this country want regardless of whether or not they are willing to vote UKIP to get it. The fact that some racists want the same thing for purely racist reasons is not a reason to not implement the policy. Remember, racists also support things like having an NHS and a welfare system but none of the main parties abandon good policies just because racists support them... that is obvious stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 The thing is that people can see with their own eyes the mass immigration from Eastern Europe. We can see a lack of integration. We can see they are poor. And it is easy to deduce that poor immigrants whose cultural practices are at odds with our own are making a negative social and financial contribution. Our current un-selective immigration policies is good for immigrants but bad for the rest of us and it isn't UKIP lying with dodgy numbers. What percentage of Eastern European immigrants since 2004 have not integrated?.............figures have shown that immigrants since 2004 have made a positive contribution to the UK,not a negative one,if you want to stigmatise poor people,that says more about you than it does them,are you going to stigmatise poor English people too and say that they don't integrate because they refuse to give up benefits and work like everybody else?......UKIP have FEARMONGERED with dodgy numbers about the number of immigrants that would arrive on 1/1/2014......a TIDAL WAVE,it never happened,and UKIP are perceived by the public to have been dishonest about what they were claiming would happen,just because a few Roma don't blend into UK life doesn't give you the right to attempt to stigmatise Eastern European immigrants,it's not going to work and it doesn't work because the majority of the public in the UK recognise these immigrants for what they are,hard working and no trouble..............the minority are jumped all over by UKIP,the right wing politicians, and media as being what Eastern European immigrants are in general,no,they are not,because these FEARMONGERS and propagandists are stigmatising and demonising them as they do not want to show a good side................only a bad side,when any normal person reailises that there is a good side and the full truth is not what these stigmatisers want shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 What percentage of Eastern European immigrants since 2004 have not integrated?.............figures have shown that immigrants since 2004 have made a positive contribution to the UK,not a negative one,if you want to stigmatise poor people,that says more about you than it does them,are you going to stigmatise poor English people too and say that they don't integrate because they refuse to give up benefits and work like everybody else?......UKIP have FEARMONGERED with dodgy numbers about the number of immigrants that would arrive on 1/1/2014......a TIDAL WAVE,it never happened,and UKIP are perceived by the public to have been dishonest about what theuy were claiming would happen,just because a few Roma don't blend into UK life doesn't give you the right to attempt to stigmatise Eastern European immingrants,it's not going to work and it doesn't work because the majority of the public in the UK recognise these immigrants for what they are,hard working and no trouble..............the minority are jumped all over by UKIP,the right wing politicians, and media as being what Eastern European immigrants are in general,no,they are not,because these FEARMONGERS and propagandists are stigmatising and demonising them as they do not want to show a good side................only a bad side,when any normal person reailises that there is a good side and the full truth is not what these stigmatisers want shown. Your rant is almost unreadable. It is impossible to provide an integration percentage because it is subjective but it is also completely irrelevant. We see the massing of immigrants in the poorer areas of our cities and town and the lack of integration can be seen with our own eyes and it is causing social problems and division. I'm not stigmatising poor people. It is just a fact that poor people don't make a positive financial contribution and it doesn't matter how much you try to spin it. If the poor made a positive financial contribution we would have a national surplus instead of a huge national debt... it is simply insulting to our intelligence to suggest poor immigrants are somehow different and are making a positive contribution. Crap. Besides, nobody is blaming immigrants for doing what we would probably do in their shoes... we blame policy for letting them do it and want to change it. If anyone is sitting on the fence wondering whether to vote UKIP then let me say this... it will really annoy people like chalga if you do! That should secure a few more votes for UKIP... keep on campaigning chalga! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xt500 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 What percentage of Eastern European immigrants since 2004 have not integrated?.............figures have shown that immigrants since 2004 have made a positive contribution to the UK,not a negative one,if you want to stigmatise poor people,that says more about you than it does them,are you going to stigmatise poor English people too and say that they don't integrate because they refuse to give up benefits and work like everybody else?......UKIP have FEARMONGERED with dodgy numbers about the number of immigrants that would arrive on 1/1/2014......a TIDAL WAVE,it never happened,and UKIP are perceived by the public to have been dishonest about what they were claiming would happen,just because a few Roma don't blend into UK life doesn't give you the right to attempt to stigmatise Eastern European immigrants,it's not going to work and it doesn't work because the majority of the public in the UK recognise these immigrants for what they are,hard working and no trouble..............the minority are jumped all over by UKIP,the right wing politicians, and media as being what Eastern European immigrants are in general,no,they are not,because these FEARMONGERS and propagandists are stigmatising and demonising them as they do not want to show a good side................only a bad side,when any normal person reailises that there is a good side and the full truth is not what these stigmatisers want shown. "figures have shown that immigrants since 2004 have made a positive contribution to the UK" That depends on what you regard as positive. Many think a fifth of the workforce now in low paid jobs or worse struggling to make ends meet,holding their hands out to the tax payer to make up their pittance in family and tax credits isn't what they would call positive. Of course over stretched services is positive too,to the point maternity wards are turning away expectant mothers as they cannot cope. Maybe immmigrants coming here and working a few hours a week to scam/qualify for family credits back home is also a positive thing too? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058522/Benefit-fraud-Slovakian-family-imported-dozens-mothers-Britain-claim-1-2m.html "Slovakian family imported dozens of ‘mothers’ to Britain so they could falsely claim £1.2m in benefits" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2864952/My-60-000-benefits-helped-build-house-Romanian-migrant-boasts-handouts-UK-helped-construct-home-wife-children-homeland.html My £60,000 in benefits helped build my house: Romanian migrant boasts handouts from the UK have helped him construct home for wife and children in his homeland Ion Lazar says handouts are funding the property in a Romanian village The 36-year-old said: 'It's like free money, thank you England' The part-time scrap metal dealer receives £1,700 in benefits a month Of course these are one offs lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Besides, nobody is blaming immigrants for doing what we would probably do in their shoes... we blame policy for letting them do it and want to change it. If anyone is sitting on the fence wondering whether to vote UKIP then let me say this... it will really annoy people like chalga if you do! That should secure a few more votes for UKIP... keep on campaigning chalga! Why would it annoy me?.............it would make my day if UKIP and Farage walked into No10 in May...............the endless laughs available and the 'earthquake' and confusion of leaving the EU just for one, would give me enough entertainment to last a lifetime,so please ...........DO VOTE UKIP,AS MANY AS POSSIBLE..................leave the EU,as soon as possible,we don't want the whingers in...............if the UK wants to base the rest of its future on the basis of a few Roma in the country,go ahead,make my day.............the rest of the business and banking world will be overjoyed that some people who don't like Roma or Eastern Europeans,or any immigrants if it comes to that,have decided to pull the UK out of the EU,with all that it entails. ---------- Post added 23-01-2015 at 14:18 ---------- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058522/Benefit-fraud-Slovakian-family-imported-dozens-mothers-Britain-claim-1-2m.html "Slovakian family imported dozens of ‘mothers’ to Britain so they could falsely claim £1.2m in benefits" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2864952/My-60-000-benefits-helped-build-house-Romanian-migrant-boasts-handouts-UK-helped-construct-home-wife-children-homeland.html My £60,000 in benefits helped build my house: Romanian migrant boasts handouts from the UK have helped him construct home for wife and children in his homeland Ion Lazar says handouts are funding the property in a Romanian village The 36-year-old said: 'It's like free money, thank you England' The part-time scrap metal dealer receives £1,700 in benefits a month Of course these are one offs lol. Thanks for proving my point about UKIP and the right wing media.politicians and their supporters being only willing to show one side of immigration............the bad side.................according to them,there is no good side,which anyone without their prejudices knows is absolutely incorrect. ---------- Post added 23-01-2015 at 14:24 ---------- I'm not stigmatising poor people. It is just a fact that poor people don't make a positive financial contribution and it doesn't matter how much you try to spin it. If the poor made a positive financial contribution we would have a national surplus instead of a huge national debt... it is simply insulting to our intelligence to suggest poor immigrants are somehow different and are making a positive contribution. Yes you are stigmatising poor people,you are also stigmatising poor English people.............immigrants are not responsible for the size of the national debt,you are stigmatising the poor,English and immigrants for not making a positive financial contribution..............what are you going to do about all those poor English that you are blaming for being poor?...............what is your solution,because they have been in the UK for centuries now,and will still be there even if there were no immigrants at all. ---------- Post added 23-01-2015 at 14:33 ---------- That depends on what you regard as positive. Many think a fifth of the workforce now in low paid jobs or worse struggling to make ends meet,holding their hands out to the tax payer to make up their pittance in family and tax credits isn't what they would call positive. Of course over stretched services is positive too,to the point maternity wards are turning away expectant mothers as they cannot cope. Maybe immmigrants coming here and working a few hours a week to scam/qualify for family credits back home is also a positive thing too? . Poorly paid people holding their hands out for taxpayers money is not the fault of immigrants,it is the fault of governments policies,minimum wage etc,and companies who decide what to pay people............immigrants do not decide wages and government policy. Hospital services being overstratched is not the fault of immigrants,government policy decides that too,if the government wants people to come from abroad and work in the UK,like they have said,and need,then they should make sure that the infrastructure is in place..............you don't invite people round to your house for cup of tea and then say to them 'Sorry,I don't have any teabags,and no cups either'. Immigrants get what benefits they are entitled too,and if they get benefits they are not entitled too,that is down to poor policies and workmanship of the authorities who are responsible for checking the elegibility for people who are claiming...............they need to do their jobs correctly. Edited January 23, 2015 by chalga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Why would it annoy me?.............it would make my day if UKIP and Farage walked into No10 in May...............the endless laughs available and the 'earthquake' and confusion of leaving the EU just for one, would give me enough entertainment to last a lifetime,so please ...........DO VOTE UKIP,AS MANY AS POSSIBLE..................leave the EU,as soon as possible,we don't want the whingers in...............if the UK wants to base the rest of its future on the basis of a few Roma in the country,go ahead,make my day.............the rest of the business and banking world will be overjoyed that some people who don't like Roma or Eastern Europeans,or any immigrants if it comes to that,have decided to pull the UK out of the EU,with all that it entails. ---------- Post added 23-01-2015 at 14:18 ---------- Thanks for proving my point about UKIP and the right wing media.politicians and their supporters being only willing to show one side of immigration............the bad side.................according to them,there is no good side,which anyone without their prejudices knows is absolutely incorrect. ---------- Post added 23-01-2015 at 14:24 ---------- Yes you are stigmatising poor people,you are also stigmatising poor English people.............immigrants are not responsible for the size of the national debt,you are stigmatising the poor,English and immigrants for not making a positive financial contribution..............what are you going to do about all those poor English that you are blaming for being poor?...............what is your solution,because they have been in the UK for centuries now,and will still be there even if there were no immigrants at all. ---------- Post added 23-01-2015 at 14:33 ---------- Poorly paid people holding their hands out for taxpayers money is not the fault of immigrants,it is the fault of governments policies,minimum wage etc,and companies who decide what to pay people............immigrants do not decide wages and government policy. Hospital services being overstratched is not the fault of immigrants,government policy decides that too,if the government wants people to come from abroad and work in the UK,like they have said,and need,then they should make sure that the infrastructure is in place..............you don't invite people round to your house for cup of tea and then say to them 'Sorry,I don't have any teabags,and no cups either'. Immigrants get what benefits they are entitled too,and if they get benefits they are not entitled too,that is down to poor policies and workmanship of the authorities who are responsible for checking the elegibility for people who are claiming...............they need to do their jobs correctly. After all that ranting about governments policies, it seems you are still happy to carry on with the same, masochistic comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 After all that ranting about governments policies, it seems you are still happy to carry on with the same, masochistic comes to mind. Which part of 'DO VOTE UKIP,AS MANY AS POSSIBLE' could you not understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellco Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 What about when UKIP does it though: Romanian Immigration Is Up - But Ukip's Prediction Was Off By A Pretty Long Way http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/13/romania-bulgaria-ukip-nigel-farage-immigration_n_5674616.html You can't keep blaming the media for UKIPs lies and failings and their reporting of them. The media do it to all parties, get used to it. You see you're doing it again UKIP quoted the number of people who could come and who might. Without the use of a crystal ball no-one can say for definite what will happen in the future. ---------- Post added 23-01-2015 at 17:31 ---------- What percentage of Eastern European immigrants since 2004 have not integrated?.............figures have shown that immigrants since 2004 have made a positive contribution to the UK,not a negative one Not that Red Herring again... people aren't falling for it any more.... Someone worked out how much tax they pay against how much is claimed in Jobseekers Allowance... which does show the influx to be positive... But they're just playing games, there's many other costs not factored in... 1. Child Benefit 2. In work benefits and Housing Benefit 3. The cost of imprisoning their criminal element. 4. The cost to schools, hospitals and other public services 5. The cost of policing areas like Page Hall (they had to open a new station down their with 5 officers.) They are the financial ones... no doubt there's more. Then there's the impact on peoples lives... 1. Not enough school places 2. NHS on its knees 3. Lack of affordable housing 4. Low wages where the minimum wage is now the maximum wage in some areas because they will work for less. 5. Destruction of many inner city areas like Page Hall. The list is endless... migration from the EU has been a complete disaster for the people already here... unless you're a rich farmer or any other who makes millions on the back of the low paid. ---------- Post added 23-01-2015 at 17:34 ---------- Labour bottling it again.. http://www.thurrockgazette.co.uk/news/11745762.Labour_Polly_turns_down_UKIP_Tim_s_challenge/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 You see you're doing it again UKIP quoted the number of people who could come and who might. Without the use of a crystal ball no-one can say for definite what will happen in the future. ---------- Post added 23-01-2015 at 17:31 ---------- Not that Red Herring again... people aren't falling for it any more.... Someone worked out how much tax they pay against how much is claimed in Jobseekers Allowance... which does show the influx to be positive... But they're just playing games, there's many other costs not factored in... 1. Child Benefit 2. In work benefits and Housing Benefit 3. The cost of imprisoning their criminal element. 4. The cost to schools, hospitals and other public services 5. The cost of policing areas like Page Hall (they had to open a new station down their with 5 officers.) They are the financial ones... no doubt there's more. Then there's the impact on peoples lives... 1. Not enough school places 2. NHS on its knees 3. Lack of affordable housing 4. Low wages where the minimum wage is now the maximum wage in some areas because they will work for less. 5. Destruction of many inner city areas like Page Hall. The list is endless... migration from the EU has been a complete disaster for the people already here... unless you're a rich farmer or any other who makes millions on the back of the low paid. You give us the detailed figures of your costings and the way that you have worked everything out to come to your conclusion that EU immigrants since 2004 have not made a positive contribution..............where is your survey that contains all the things you mention with the figures worked out for those things,allied to all the other things that you need to come to your conclusion,if you can't provide these things,all you have is your hot air and your prejudices..............not a lot to be proud of is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellco Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 You give us the detailed figures of your costings and the way that you have worked everything out to come to your conclusion that EU immigrants since 2004 have not made a positive contribution..............where is your survey that contains all the things you mention with the figures worked out for those things,allied to all the other things that you need to come to your conclusion,if you can't provide these things,all you have is your hot air and your prejudices..............not a lot to be proud of is it? The Scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz could work out that all those issues cost money... Maybe you should take lessons from the said Scarecrow.. As our leader states here the population has risen by 5m in the last ten years with no increases in public services.... He also puts to bed the lies, more lies and further lies about UKIP and the NHS. http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/553914/Nigel-Farage-Ukip-Ed-Miliband-David-Cameron-NHS-privatise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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