Ukip. All discussion here please.

[ElasticMan]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage/11573247/Ukip-asks-Scotland-Yard-to-investigate-BBCs-Have-I-Got-News-To-You.html

 

Political Correctness gone mad.

 

The UK Independence Party has asked Scotland Yard to investigate the BBC, claiming that comments made about Nigel Farage during an episode of Have I Got News For You might hinder his chances of electoral success.

 

---------- Post added 30-04-2015 at 11:18 ----------

 

 

 

 

Let's not mention the counter demonstrations against the Nazis..........or just ignore the fact that Germany is taking them in,and coming out as top economy.

 

UKIP - Defending free speech for Everyone! Unless you say anything bad or silly about them - in which case they are calling the police.

[chalga]

Yesterday, Nigel Farage, the leader of the UK Independence Party, argued that the EU’s response to the migrant deaths crisis ran the risk of admitting half a million terrorists on to EU soil. He based this claim on the threat of the ‘Islamic State’ (Daesh) terrorists to send such killers to the EU via means of smuggling routes, and demanded that David Cameron veto the EU plans.

 

Do these claims make sense? Not in the slightest. First of all, the EU policy, as I discussed last week, is essentially to reaffirm the status quo. The current limited maritime surveillance missions will be expanded, although it is not clear if they will amount to fully-fledged rescue missions. This probably means that more people will reach the EU, but this will only be for the reason that fewer of them will drown en route.

 

Once in the EU, they will be able to make claims for asylum – but that is no different to the current law. The EU’s plan does not involve any changes to EU asylum legislation; it simply calls on Member States to apply those laws. The EU did commit to some form of direct resettlement of refugees from third countries – but EU leaders could not even agree on the tiny number of 5,000 refugees to be settled next year.

 

Farage would prefer a policy of returning people to the countries they left. In fact, asylum-seekers can already be returned to their countries of origin or transit, if it is clear when examining their application that those countries are safe. But in accordance with the UN (Geneva) Refugee Convention – which UKIP purports to support – they cannot be returned to an unsafe country. Libya, for instance, is clearly unsafe: there are widespread whippings, beatings, electric shocks and hangings of migrants. In any event, asylum-seekers who prove to be terrorists must be denied refugee status or other forms of protection status, as the CJEU has confirmed.

 

Farage demands that David Cameron veto the EU’s plans, but that simply isn’t possible, because the UK has an opt-out from EU asylum and immigration law. We can choose not to participate, and indeed the UK has already chosen not to participate in any of the second phase EU asylum measures, except for those which transfer asylum-seekers from the UK to other Member States. We can choose not to participate in any future measures too – although as noted already, the EU is not even planning any new asylum laws in response to the deaths. Since the UK has an opt-out, it does not have a veto. But in fact, no Member State has a veto on EU asylum policy. Most EU immigration and asylum law has in fact been subject to qualified majority voting since 2005. (Laws on legal migration were subject to unanimous voting until 2009; but the EU’s plan does not address legal migration issues).

 

As regards border control operations in particular, the UK doesn’t participate fully in the EU’s border control agency, Frontex. In fact, according to the EU Court of Justice, legally we can’t participate in Frontex, since we don’t participate in the full Schengen system of abolishing internal border controls. Instead we have an informal arrangement, for instance supplying some hardware to assist with the expanded surveillance operations. But even that sort of informal arrangement is under challenge in a case pending before the CJEU.

 

In some ways, Farage’s own policy runs its own risks. He has argued that Christians in particular should be admitted as refugees into the EU. As I have pointed out, this again violates the Geneva Convention that UKIP purport to support, since that Convention requires non-discriminatory application on grounds of religion, and it would also be unfeasible to distinguish between Christians and Muslims during rescue at sea. But if Christians are being resettled directly from areas afflicted by Daesh, the UKIP policy would provide the perfect opportunity for ISIS fighters to pretend to be Christian as a way to ensure entry into the EU.

 

As an assessment of terrorist methodology, Farage’s claims are also suspect. The bulk of Daesh atrocities have not been carried out in the EU, but in Syria and Iraq, as well as by affiliated groups in Libya and Nigeria. Most of the people who have been linked to Daesh in Europe have been EU citizens who travelled to parts of the Middle East to participate in atrocities. Any migrants who were rescued from boats or who were resettled directly from conflict areas would presumably be disarmed of any weapons they were carrying en route. Of course, they might obtain weapons once they reached the EU; but since Farage is an outspoken critic of gun control, he is part of the problem, not of the solution, to that issue. As for the figure of half a million Daesh fighters coming to the EU, that's 20 or 30 times the CIA's estimate of the total number of all Daesh fighters.

 

Finally, Farage argues that the EU has cynically used the migrant deaths crisis to develop a comprehensive immigration and asylum policy. If only it had: in fact, the EU’s response is largely marginal and ineffectual. Indeed, Farage is throwing some huge stones inside this glass house. It is Farage who is trying to ‘weaponise’ the tragic deaths of hundreds of people, taking this opportunity to make an inaccurate and incoherent rant in the midst of an election campaign.

Posted by Steve Peers at 05:38

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Labels: asylum, Mediterranean, migrant deaths, Nigel Farage, refugees, UKIP

 

http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/fact-checking-nigel-farage-will-eus.html

[loraward]

In any event, asylum-seekers who prove to be terrorists must be denied refugee status or other forms of protection status, as the CJEU has confirmed.

 

 

How would you set about proving that someone is trying to gain entry into Europe in order to commit terrorist acts, they don't even know who most of the migrants are because they are told to destroy their identity documents.

[chalga]

How would you set about proving that someone is trying to gain entry into Europe in order to commit terrorist acts, they don't even know who most of the migrants are because they are told to destroy their identity documents.

 

Let Farage answer it......he's saying that 500,000 will do it........how does he prove it?

[loraward]

Let Farage answer it......he's saying that 500,000 will do it........how does he prove it?

 

I haven't heard him say anything about 500,000 terrorists getting in Europe, do you have a link to the speech in which he said it.

[I1L2T3]

It is the financial burden, social problems and security threats that Germany will be enduring. Foreigners who can make a positive financial and social contribution are no doubt as welcome there as they are here... problem is they aren't to be found drifting on boats in the Med.

 

How do you know that? What evidence do you have that all the migrants are all low-skilled? Some I've seen interviewed on TV seem to be well educated with good English.

[chalga]

I haven't heard him say anything about 500,000 terrorists getting in Europe, do you have a link to the speech in which he said it.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/573764/Nigel-Farage-Boat-people-will-bring-half-a-million-ISIS-terrorists-to-Europe

[loraward]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/573764/Nigel-Farage-Boat-people-will-bring-half-a-million-ISIS-terrorists-to-Europe

 

This is the headline.

 

Mediterranean boats will bring 500,000 Islamic State terrorists to Europe, blasts Farage

This is what they claim he said.

 

OVER hasty EU legislation to tackle the thousands of African migrants trying to cross the Mediterranean to Italy could see half a million Islamic State terrorists to flood Europe, Nigel Farage has warned.

 

Are you saying that Italy couldn't see half a million Islamic State terrorists flood Europe and how will you identify them stop them if they try?

[Halibut]

How do you know that? What evidence do you have that all the migrants are all low-skilled? Some I've seen interviewed on TV seem to be well educated with good English.

 

He doesn't know that at all. It's just his innate prejudice and suspicion against foreigners - especially the duskier ones - rearing its ugly head again.

 

It's through him like the lettering in a stick of rock.

[chalga]

How would you set about proving that someone is trying to gain entry into Europe in order to commit terrorist acts, they don't even know who most of the migrants are because they are told to destroy their identity documents.

 

If you want to have an argument with yourself.........or with Farage for that matter,you go right ahead,but don't ask me to answer the questons you are asking yourself,or the ones that Farage needs to answer

 

---------- Post added 01-05-2015 at 07:01 ----------

 

This is the headline.

 

 

This is what they claim he said.

 

 

 

Are you saying that Italy couldn't see half a million Islamic State terrorists flood Europe and how will you identify them stop them if they try?

 

You asked the question earlier.......now come up with the answer to your own question