Ukip. All discussion here please.

[mjw47]

You've just described some of the people that will hold them to accounts as bigots and gullible, so presumably you don't want them held to account. The status quo will continue with the same group of MP's having their noses in the trough.

 

I described Ukip's target demographic as bigots and/or gullible, those are the ones that they have set out to attract with their blatant xenophobic agenda.

 

There are some Ukip voters who fall into neither of those categories but are voting for them as a protest and to 'send a message' to the main parties that they are fed up and want action on European reform and control of borders.

 

Those ones however have no real expectation of Ukip wielding any real power, they are just protesting the lamentable performances of the other parties.

 

Anyone who seriously thinks that they will make a real difference - other than a' wake up' call - is gullible. Anyone who seriously agrees with their outlook is a bigot.

 

Case in point; http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2Fpolitics%2Fnigel-farage-race-row-how-politicians-commentators-and-ukip-leader-himself-reacted-10103536.html&ei=Jw5KVZLmD4axsAT71IDgDA&usg=AFQjCNH4YbpUxUskfflOSii5LGYuqw8TYw&bvm=bv.92765956,d.cWc&cad=rja

 

It's nice to know however that not all Ukip members are racists as the internal row over candidate selection reported here goes to show.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CC0QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mirror.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-news%2Ftape-recording-reveals-ukips-internal-5379396&ei=Jw5KVZLmD4axsAT71IDgDA&usg=AFQjCNE-hD6KEbxgYv_H4C1c6EU1XdrpWw&bvm=bv.92765956,d.cWc&cad=rja

 

Being right wing isn't a problem unless it becomes fascism, in the same way that being left wing isn't a problem unless it is communism.

 

Both of those extremes have histories which debars them from serious consideration.

[Zamo]

For the size of the operation they have experienced far too many 'glitches' which suggests a lack of professionalism and standards

 

Yes, that is what happens when an organisation, business or political party grows too rapidly. It is difficult to maintain standards, manage cash flow, get the right people, respond to problems etc. It will sort itself eventually.

 

Their policies are popular because they appeal to the lowest common denominator, the taxi driver who tells you all about the problem in the country and how to resolve it in an £8 taxi ride.

 

The bloke in the pub who's convinced it's all the fault of the immigrants and knows what should be done to return the country to the 'Sceptered Isle' it once was.

 

The anti EU obsessives ( who have a point in that it is badly in need of reform ) who don't get the fact that the decision to stay or leave the EU will be decided in The City and corporate boardrooms.

 

Ukip are in the lovely position of being able to promise us anything to get our vote because they will never be called to account.

 

Their policies are popular because they reflect opinion... it hasn't shaped oninion.

 

Wanting a common market without the extended federalism of the EU seems a fairly reasonable policy. And ukip's policy is not to impose their view on others (as Labour would do) but to give people a choice. Where do you see the fascism in that?

 

Wanting a selective immigration policy that results in a win-win for immigrants and those already here seem financially sensible and a socially responsible way of preventing community division and racism from growing. What is fascist about it?

 

In fact I can't think of any ukip policies that are fascist. Why not give us some specific examples instead of simply labelling people stupid because their life experiences have to led them to have a different outlook to you?

[mjw47]

Which can only be improved with practice and being given responsibilities

 

 

 

You were doing well try not to be elitist or a snob.. taxi drivers are people too.

 

 

 

Yes its time their views were given proper respect and consideration

 

 

 

Right again ..its time we took that power away from them and gave it back to the people who want the country to be run on our behalf for us not in spite of us, and not to increase the wealth and power of a few.

 

 

.

 

Their conduct to date does not merit them being given any responsibility whatsoever, you first of all have to earn respect and show that you are capable of doing the job.

 

They had the opportunity and failed to take it, preferring to take the money and the pee with no sense of duty involved.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CFwQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-2626937%2FUkip-MEPs-laziest-Europe-missing-debates-Cameron-warns-UK-needs-politicians-turn-up.html&ei=RRhKVfT7A4rX7Ab5pYHQCg&usg=AFQjCNHAd4NhXu8ePd0k9tOhzO48BKLbCA&bvm=bv.92291466,d.ZGU&cad=rja

 

Their party motto appears to be ' do as little as possible for as much as possible'.

 

When they had the opportunity to vote on something that mattered the couldn't be bothered.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fanotherangryvoice.blogspot.com%2F2014%2F05%2Fukip-fish-and-ivory-voting-record.html&ei=MxlKVbjaDMLl7gbMsoGoDg&usg=AFQjCNHkevj2Vp8VmtnEOwz-Oab7kSKfoA&bvm=bv.92291466,d.ZGU&cad=rja

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CEAQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F85563e82-8f44-11e3-be85-00144feab7de.html&ei=-BlKVdWvCefR7Qab64DgDQ&usg=AFQjCNGxTGho5ocX6D64JjWhmm1_-QFZ1g&bvm=bv.92291466,d.ZGU&cad=rja

 

They come across as a bunch of shysters and do not represent anyone but themselves.

 

No snobbery intended, it is simply a well known cliche that taxi drivers tend to hold strong opinions and have no problem letting you know about them.

 

Not only do I have no problem with that I find it highly amusing, that does not mean to say that I'd necessarily be swayed by the arguments and grievances expressed.

 

If you are someone who wants the country run on your behalf on a Ukip agenda then you are going to be disappointed.

 

Which is just as well seeing as how they are apparently incapable of actually doing the job they were elected to do.

[retep]

Their conduct to date does not merit them being given any responsibility whatsoever, you first of all have to earn respect and show that you are capable of doing the job.

 

They had the opportunity and failed to take it, preferring to take the money and the pee with no sense of duty involved.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&ved=0CFwQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-2626937%2FUkip-MEPs-laziest-Europe-missing-debates-Cameron-warns-UK-needs-politicians-turn-up.html&ei=RRhKVfT7A4rX7Ab5pYHQCg&usg=AFQjCNHAd4NhXu8ePd0k9tOhzO48BKLbCA&bvm=bv.92291466,d.ZGU&cad=rja

 

Their party motto appears to be ' do as little as possible for as much as possible'.

 

When they had the opportunity to vote on something that mattered the couldn't be bothered.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fanotherangryvoice.blogspot.com%2F2014%2F05%2Fukip-fish-and-ivory-voting-record.html&ei=MxlKVbjaDMLl7gbMsoGoDg&usg=AFQjCNHkevj2Vp8VmtnEOwz-Oab7kSKfoA&bvm=bv.92291466,d.ZGU&cad=rja

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CEAQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F85563e82-8f44-11e3-be85-00144feab7de.html&ei=-BlKVdWvCefR7Qab64DgDQ&usg=AFQjCNGxTGho5ocX6D64JjWhmm1_-QFZ1g&bvm=bv.92291466,d.ZGU&cad=rja

 

They come across as a bunch of shysters and do not represent anyone but themselves.

 

No snobbery intended, it is simply a well known cliche that taxi drivers tend to hold strong opinions and have no problem letting you know about them.

 

Not only do I have no problem with that I find it highly amusing, that does not mean to say that I'd necessarily be swayed by the arguments and grievances expressed.

 

If you are someone who wants the country run on your behalf on a Ukip agenda then you are going to be disappointed.

 

Which is just as well seeing as how they are apparently incapable of actually doing the job they were elected to do.

 

Really,

[Frederick1]

UKIP have explicit rules banning membership of these organisations from joining, unlike any other party. Some could say they are the only party to need such rules I suspect.

 

You could also add they strictly enforce them, even when retrospectively if they find out the candidate was not truthful!

 

[mjw47]

Yes, that is what happens when an organisation, business or political party grows too rapidly. It is difficult to maintain standards, manage cash flow, get the right people, respond to problems etc. It will sort itself eventually.

 

 

 

Their policies are popular because they reflect opinion... it hasn't shaped oninion.

 

Wanting a common market without the extended federalism of the EU seems a fairly reasonable policy. And ukip's policy is not to impose their view on others (as Labour would do) but to give people a choice. Where do you see the fascism in that?

 

Wanting a selective immigration policy that results in a win-win for immigrants and those already here seem financially sensible and a socially responsible way of preventing community division and racism from growing. What is fascist about it?

 

In fact I can't think of any ukip policies that are fascist. Why not give us some specific examples instead of simply labelling people stupid because their life experiences have to led them to have a different outlook to you?

 

First of all I have a little experience of business in that I ran regions for national companies for a number of years before forming my own company and running it successfully for 16 years.

 

When building a business you simply cannot afford to employ 'bad apples', they will damage your company right at the beginning and give you a reputation which will be difficult to rid yourself of.

 

That is what Ukip have done, it shows incompetence and an alarming lack of ability and foresight, I wouldn't trust them to run a whelk stall.

 

You appear to be prepared to make all sorts of allowances for their ineptitude and don't see a problem in allowing them to have real power.

 

I'm not prepared to take that view, when a company behaves in that manner it goes out of business but only it's owners and employees suffer.

 

When a political party is as incompetent then the general public suffer.

 

You misunderstood my fascist and communist comment. I was making the point that holding right wing or left wing views is not a problem, everyone is entitled to their viewpoint.

 

However, in my opinion when either of those views strays into extremism then that's when they do become a problem.

 

I was not implying that Ukip are fascist, although at least one member that they had selected as a candidate appears to be.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Felection-2015-england-32595003&ei=HcpJVfmhLdjxaunsgIgH&usg=AFQjCNH7kA-Tw6LizCerS9mapLQ1DaQ4pA&bvm=bv.92291466,d.d2s&cad=rja

 

Threatening to shoot someone "between the eyes" because you don't like them and disagree with their politics sounds a bit fascistic to me.

[Frederick1]

There's been over 200 Lab/Lib/Con councillors and MP's sacked, prosecuted or jailed since 2010. Nobody knows much about these though. They don't often appear in the media. My opinion is that UKIP are no different than the others, they're just as bad.

 

You mean much "badder"!!! I wouldn't call wife bashing, rape, fraud etc as bad as UKIP!

 

---------- Post added 06-05-2015 at 15:33 ----------

 

There are some Ukip voters who fall into neither of those categories but are voting for them as a protest and to 'send a message' to the main parties that they are fed up and want action on European reform and control of borders.

 

Those ones however have no real expectation of Ukip wielding any real power, they are just protesting the lamentable performances of the other parties.

 

Anyone who seriously thinks that they will make a real difference - other than a' wake up' call - is gullible. Anyone who seriously agrees with their outlook is a bigot.

 

.

 

What about the ones who have read their manifesto, and like it? Or haven't you bothered to look at it?

 

:confused:

[mjw47]

Really,

 

Yes really! http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CFMQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fnigel-farage-ripped-apart-in-eu-debate-2012-12&ei=YiVKVYSONfSV7AbksIGIAQ&usg=AFQjCNFlkLqTe8kzp7GoZCvEZKvwtPczpg&bvm=bv.92291466,d.ZGU&cad=rja

[Frederick1]

Threatening to shoot someone "between the eyes" because you don't like them and disagree with their politics sounds a bit fascistic to me.

 

I agree with you mjw47 - and I'm a Member of UKIP!!!

Takes all sorts?

 

[loraward]

I described Ukip's target demographic as bigots and/or gullible, those are the ones that they have set out to attract with their blatant xenophobic agenda.

 

Why in your opinion are UKIP policies xenophobic?

 

What makes you think their target demographic are intolerant of people because of the opinions they hold?

 

What is it that you think UKIP supporters have been persuaded to believe?

 

Most of them at some point will have supported another party and because they are not gullible enough to believe that those parties have changed, they have decided to support a different party. They are likley the least gullible.