Ukip. All discussion here please.

[chalga]

So if a xenophobe works at Tesco, you'd call them a racist or xenophobic organisation, however if a political party appeals to xenophobes it doesn't make the political party xenophobes! How does that work?

 

I think political parties and commercial organisations have different purposes. I'm sure Tescos wouldn't want xenophobes working inside their stores, but I would say it's more of an imperative for political parties not to have xenophobes. Wouldn't you agree?

 

If xenophobes shop at Tescos,they aren't doing it because they associate Tescos with xenophobia..........if xenophobes vote for UKIP,they are doing it because they associate it with xenophobia.........a really simple analogy that cuts through all the crap being spouted on here.

[mjw47]

Appealing to xenophobes doesn't make someone or the organization they belong to xenophobic.

By shopping in Tesco you are supporting Tesco, but if racists and xenophobes shop in Tesco or work for Tesco I would call Tesco a racist or xenophobic organisation. The same applies to UKIP just because some members and supporters might me racists or xenophobic doesn't make UKIP racist or xenophobic.

 

No it doesn't, what it does make them however, is opportunistic calculating self serving morally repugnant third rate no marks who are that eager to get their snouts in the trough that principles and decency are not given any consideration.

 

If you wish to vote for such people, despite all the facts as to their self serving attitude and their eagerness to enrich themselves without being prepared to carry out the work they were elected to do, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

 

Now I'm off to vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party, I haven't quite made my mind up as to which one of them ye,t but by the time I get to the polling station I will have.

[Alan Ladd]

So if a xenophobe works at Tesco, you'd call them a racist or xenophobic organisation, however if a political party appeals to xenophobes it doesn't make the political party xenophobes! How does that work?

 

I think political parties and commercial organisations have different purposes. I'm sure Tescos wouldn't want xenophobes working inside their stores, but I would say it's more of an imperative for political parties not to have xenophobes. Wouldn't you agree?

 

An interesting point, but, surely it is better to have people with extreme views within established parties so that they may be tempered by the centrists. If we continue to isolate individuals we may live to regret it. If, for instance the Gaullists had worked with Le Pen, accepting his extremism but incorporating and sanitizing it, we may never have seen the rise of his party in France.

 

Had Labour worked with Mosley in the 30s he may not have broken away to the extremes of the left to Fascism.

 

Millibands father, a revolutionary communist, found that by infiltrating and joining the Labour party he was able to influence and direct the party towards his own way of thinking. He would never have achieved what he did by remaining outside.

 

---------- Post added 07-05-2015 at 12:22 ----------

 

No it doesn't, what it does make them however, is opportunistic calculating self serving morally repugnant third rate no marks who are that eager to get their snouts in the trough that principles and decency are not given any consideration.

 

If you wish to vote for such people, despite all the facts as to their self serving attitude and their eagerness to enrich themselves without being prepared to carry out the work they were elected to do, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

 

Now I'm off to vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party, I haven't quite made my mind up as to which one of them ye,t but by the time I get to the polling station I will have.

 

You are a thinking person, as such I hope you will vote with your head, I encourage you to vote Tory if they have a chance of winning in your constituency or UKIP to unseat a Labour/SNP candidate.

[loraward]

So if a xenophobe works at Tesco, you'd call them a racist or xenophobic organisation, however if a political party appeals to xenophobes it doesn't make the political party xenophobes! How does that work?

 

I think political parties and commercial organisations have different purposes. I'm sure Tescos wouldn't want xenophobes working inside their stores, but I would say it's more of an imperative for political parties not to have xenophobes. Wouldn't you agree?

 

No, that should have said wouldn't.

 

---------- Post added 07-05-2015 at 12:29 ----------

 

If xenophobes shop at Tescos,they aren't doing it because they associate Tescos with xenophobia..........if xenophobes vote for UKIP,they are doing it because they associate it with xenophobia.........a really simple analogy that cuts through all the crap being spouted on here.

 

Cutting immigration isn't xenophobic but it would appeal to xenophobes, therefor xenophobes are most likley to vote for the party that is offering to cut immigration policy. If Labour, the Greens, the Lib/Dems promised to cut immigration and use a points based system, they too would attract xenophobes but it wouldn't make those parties xenophobic.

 

---------- Post added 07-05-2015 at 12:31 ----------

 

No it doesn't, what it does make them however, is opportunistic calculating self serving morally repugnant third rate no marks who are that eager to get their snouts in the trough that principles and decency are not given any consideration.

 

If you wish to vote for such people, despite all the facts as to their self serving attitude and their eagerness to enrich themselves without being prepared to carry out the work they were elected to do, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

 

Now I'm off to vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party, I haven't quite made my mind up as to which one of them ye,t but by the time I get to the polling station I will have.

 

That must then apply to all political parties because they all appeal to various members of society. Example, the Green are being opportunistic by offering £10 an hour MW because that would appeal to some people.

[chalga]

 

Cutting immigration isn't xenophobic but it would appeal to xenophobes, therefor xenophobes are most likley to vote for the party that is offering to cut immigration policy. If Labour, the Greens, the Lib/Dems promised to cut immigration and use a points based system, they too would attract xenophobes but it wouldn't make those parties xenophobic.

 

I'm not saying anything about what parties are,I'm saying what xenophobic voters associate parties with.

[Frederick1]

 

Also, given the overwhelming evidence that Ukip politicians are taking the pee ( and the expenses ) why are so many people still fooled by them?

 

How, many Labour/Tories/LibDem MPs have been up in court for expenses fiddles, and how many UKIP? It needs to be kept in context.

 

Don't worry lads and lasses - it will al be over at 2200 hours tonight!

 

:)

[loraward]

I'm not saying anything about what parties are,I'm saying what xenophobic voters associate parties with.

 

Are you sure, I would say they just pick the party that is closet to their views, even when that party is miles away from their views. Most UKIP voters will very likley be voting UKIP because it is the party most likley to beat the party they dislike even more.

[panzer1]

Chalga latest figures I can Find from DWP dated 28/8/13 show 407000 foreign born claiming benefits of which 113000 are claiming out of work benefits. So nearly half million claiming benefits and of course if it is a family then only the head of the family will claim.So half million plus wives who may or may not claim plus kids conservatively adds up to a million....................................over to you Chalga suppose those that are working 16 hours in order to claim max benefits will be the good guys.

 

---------- Post added 07-05-2015 at 12:45 ----------

 

of course all figures can be manipulated if it does not show the result you want.

 

---------- Post added 07-05-2015 at 12:46 ----------

 

Sheffield Uni Lecturer on Daily Mail predicting Cons to win and UKIP to beat labour I so F@@king hope so

 

---------- Post added 07-05-2015 at 12:46 ----------

 

Still voting UKIP

[Frederick1]

Tories 35% Labour 34% UKIP 10% Libs 10%

 

Your link was August 2011 - bit out of date ain't it???

 

[chalga]

Chalga latest figures I can Find from DWP dated 28/8/13 show 407000 foreign born claiming benefits of which 113000 are claiming out of work benefits. So nearly half million claiming benefits and of course if it is a family then only the head of the family will claim.So half million plus wives who may or may not claim plus kids conservatively adds up to a million....................................over to you Chalga suppose those that are working 16 hours in order to claim max benefits will be the good guys.

 

---------- Post added 07-05-2015 at 12:45 ----------

 

of course all figures can be manipulated if it does not show the result you want.

 

 

What are you on about 'over to me'?............you've just proved yourself wrong.

 

---------- Post added 07-05-2015 at 11:50 ----------

 

Are you sure, I would say they just pick the party that is closet to their views, even when that party is miles away from their views. Most UKIP voters will very likley be voting UKIP because it is the party most likley to beat the party they dislike even more.

 

Yes,I'm sure.