Ukip. All discussion here please.

[Mister M]

People are not voting for UKIP because of immigration propaganda but because of their direct experience of immigration.

 

Arguing that bankers have done more harm than immigrants is a pointless argument because people prioritise concerns based on what directly impacts them e.g. jobs, housing and who lives next door. People can see and feel the problems causes by unselective mass immigration whilst the problems caused by the bankers (as scandalous as they are) are intangible and attributable to a faceless bogeyman they never see and is unreal to them.

 

People expressing concerns about their negative experience of immigration is nothing new. The main parties have ignored concerns and frustration with that has now spilled over into a sizeable UKIP vote. Telling people that their experience of immigration is not real but a propaganda induced delusion is simply not going to have the desired effect. Pointing out the many shortcomings of UKIP is also not going to have the desired effect. Only addressing people's concerns about immigration is going to win back the protest vote currently sitting in the UKIP camp. The main parties, and their supporters, need to wake up to this reality.

 

Do you not think that the UKIP MEP Nathan Gill who employed dozens of immigrants has an impact on the indigenous population, or is this pointing out the shortcomings of UKIP?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-mep-nathan-gill-employed-dozens-of-immigrants-and-kept-them-in-bunkhouses-9485018.html

[L00b]

People are not voting for UKIP because of immigration propaganda but because of their direct experience of immigration.

Have they?

 

I thought most of the UKIP vote was a protest vote at the three main parties (who all did better than UKIP anyway)

Arguing that bankers have done more harm than immigrants is a pointless argument because people prioritise concerns based on what directly impacts them e.g. jobs, housing and who lives next door. People can see and feel the problems causes by unselective mass immigration whilst the problems caused by the bankers (as scandalous as they are) are intangible and attributable to a faceless bogeyman they never see and is unreal to them.

And there is the recipe of the success of populism, laid out nice and clear. Trivialise (or outright gloss over, self-interstingly no doubt since bankers are every politician's best mates) the real issues, misdirect attention towards and fan prejudice against scapegoats. UKIP exploits dumb people.

[Bonzo77]

People are not voting for UKIP because of immigration propaganda but because of their direct experience of immigration.

 

Arguing that bankers have done more harm than immigrants is a pointless argument because people prioritise concerns based on what directly impacts them e.g. jobs, housing and who lives next door. People can see and feel the problems causes by unselective mass immigration whilst the problems caused by the bankers (as scandalous as they are) are intangible and attributable to a faceless bogeyman they never see and is unreal to them.

 

People expressing concerns about their negative experience of immigration is nothing new. The main parties have ignored concerns and frustration with that has now spilled over into a sizeable UKIP vote. Telling people that their experience of immigration is not real but a propaganda induced delusion is simply not going to have the desired effect. Pointing out the many shortcomings of UKIP is also not going to have the desired effect. Only addressing people's concerns about immigration is going to win back the protest vote currently sitting in the UKIP camp. The main parties, and their supporters, need to wake up to this reality.

 

I don't see any issues with the Pakistani family over the road!?

 

However, I do see an issue with the cuts to public services, the demolition of Don Valley Stadium, the increase in bills, the ever increasing gap between rich and poor, the ever growing personal debts and emergence of greedy pay day loan companies......The list goes on.

 

The banks have caused far more damage than immigrants.

[Xt500]

I don't see any issues with the Pakistani family over the road!?

 

However, I do see an issue with the cuts to public services, the demolition of Don Valley Stadium, the increase in bills, the ever increasing gap between rich and poor, the ever growing personal debts and emergence of greedy pay day loan companies......The list goes on.

 

The banks have caused far more damage than immigrants.

 

The same public services that are struggling to cope because of the growing numbers wanting to use them?

I wonder where them extra numbers come from? It isnt out of a bank!!

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1296638/Migrants-responsible-birth-baby-number-foreign-born-mothers-doubled.html

 

 

.

[Bonzo77]

The same public services that are struggling to cope because of the growing numbers wanting to use them?

I wonder where them extra numbers come from? It isnt out of a bank!!

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1296638/Migrants-responsible-birth-baby-number-foreign-born-mothers-doubled.html

 

 

.

 

No, the public services that have been cut, you tit! Nothing to do with more people wanting them!

[Zamo]

I don't see any issues with the Pakistani family over the road!?

 

However, I do see an issue with the cuts to public services, the demolition of Don Valley Stadium, the increase in bills, the ever increasing gap between rich and poor, the ever growing personal debts and emergence of greedy pay day loan companies......The list goes on.

 

The banks have caused far more damage than immigrants.

 

Yes but you don't win back UKIP votes by addressing the issues that concern people who don't vote UKIP.

 

---------- Post added 05-06-2014 at 14:10 ----------

 

Trivialise (or outright gloss over, self-interstingly no doubt since bankers are every politician's best mates) the real issues, misdirect attention towards and fan prejudice against scapegoats. UKIP exploits dumb people.

 

I didn't trivialise the damage done by bankers - I said it was scandalous.

 

Ask yourself this... would you consider voting for a different party if that party was ignoring the issues that mattered to you whilst party supporters trashed your views and called you dumb on public forums? Didn't think so.

 

What is dumb is behaving in a way that will encourage people to do something you don't want them to do.

 

---------- Post added 05-06-2014 at 14:22 ----------

 

Do you not think that the UKIP MEP Nathan Gill who employed dozens of immigrants has an impact on the indigenous population, or is this pointing out the shortcomings of UKIP?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-mep-nathan-gill-employed-dozens-of-immigrants-and-kept-them-in-bunkhouses-9485018.html

 

That's right. You are pointing out a shortcoming but in doing so you have not done anything to address concerns about immigration. Therefore people voting for UKIP because of concerns about immigration will not stop voting UKIP.

[chalga]

 

That's right. You are pointing out a shortcoming but in doing so you have not done anything to address concerns about immigration. Therefore people voting for UKIP because of concerns about immigration will not stop voting UKIP.

 

 

What will UKIP do to address their policy of stopping unskilled immigrants into the UK to do the jobs that the UK unemployed refuse to do?............one of their own,Gill,is living proof of this by the fact that he claimed he had to resort to unskilled foreign labour to fill positions that UK unemployed would not do,now once that the UK is out of the EU,what are the UKIP policies for forcing the unemployed off benefits and into low paid and unskilled jobs?.........how are they going to address the concerns of the population about the costs of benefits?..............raising the minimum wage?...........cutting benefits?............I think the disaffected,left behind white working class that UKIP claim to represent would like to know these policies as they will be affecting them in the future.

[L00b]

I didn't trivialise the damage done by bankers - I said it was scandalous.

Saying "it's scandalous" is as throw-away (trivialising) as saying that "arguing that bankers have done more harm than immigrants is a pointless argument" and that "the problems caused by the bankers are intangible and attributable to a faceless bogeyman".

 

The fact of the matter is, traders and other high-grade financiers have done immeasurably more damage to this country (and most economies throughout the world) pre-2008/-2009 than immigrants, so what is UKIP proposing to do about it?

 

Come on UKIP, put your policies where your populism is

Ask yourself this... would you consider voting for a different party if that party was ignoring the issues that mattered to you whilst party supporters trashed your views and called you dumb on public forums? Didn't think so.

Your self-answered question does not make any sense to me, I'm afraid. Can I have it in simpler English? Genuine comment.

 

EDIT - just got it (I think). I really don't know, is the answer: I'm finding it difficult enough understanding how anyone with enough self-respect and intelligence can live with themselves voting for UKIP, without trying to put myself in their head as well.

What is dumb is behaving in a way that will encourage people to do something you don't want them to do.

What, like clamouring "off with them sponging/job-stealing/scruffy immigrants" whilst inviting them over, employing them hand over fist and providing them with heavily-subsidised accommodation? That kind of behaviour? Edited June 5, 2014 by L00b

[Guest]

I voted for UKIP in the European elections but I'm thinking that it wasn't good decision. I think I prefer the Conservative position on Europe which is to be in the EU but strive to make it work for Britain a lot better.

[dosxuk]

Ask yourself this... would you consider voting for a different party if that party was ignoring the issues that mattered to you whilst party supporters trashed your views and called you dumb on public forums? Didn't think so.

 

What makes you think everyone saying that UKIP voters are dumb are supporters of other parties?

 

Do you think everyone who says the BNP are a bad idea is a supporter of a different party trying to attract votes to them? How about the EDL?

 

Remember polls have shown that twice as many people have said they would never vote for UKIP than those who say they would definitely vote for UKIP. Many people, from across all parties, and even those who don't support any of the parties, are in agreement that UKIP is bad for the country, and their "policies" are just populist ideas targeted at the lowest common denominator, and people are being sucked in without questioning those "policies".

 

What is dumb is behaving in a way that will encourage people to do something you don't want them to do.

 

Only you and few other hardcore UKIP supporters have said that pointing out the racist and homophobic views of the numerous UKIP representatives that have subsequently been kicked out has encouraged you to vote for the party.

 

You're attempting to play the underdog card, and it's nothing more than hilarious that you think doing so will stop anyone else from pointing out the latest gaffes of the bunch of incompetents that attempt to represent the party.

 

Giving someone power who you don't agree with simply because someone said something true about them is far dumber.