Ukip. All discussion here please.

[L00b]

Giving someone power who you don't agree with simply because someone said something true about them is far dumber.

Actually, voting to elect someone into a 5-year position for representing the UK's interests within a multinational parliamentary assembly, when that someone has consistently and vociferously advertised that they will not be doing the job they've been elected to do in that position, and is proud of it, when the position itself is entirely powerless about achieving the electoral platform/promises to begin with, is dumbest of all.

I voted for UKIP in the European elections but I'm thinking that it wasn't good decision. I think I prefer the Conservative position on Europe which is to be in the EU but strive to make it work for Britain a lot better.

Too late now, your MEP (if UKIP) is on the EU gravy train for the next 5 years and, on the evidence of the record of past UKIP MEPs in the previous tenure, most likely to found doing not very much at all at any given time, other than furiously engaging in nepotism.

 

Not as if some of us didn't try to get this across before the election.

Edited June 5, 2014 by L00b

[Zamo]

What will UKIP do to address their policy of stopping unskilled immigrants into the UK to do the jobs that the UK unemployed refuse to do?............one of their own,Gill,is living proof of this by the fact that he claimed he had to resort to unskilled foreign labour to fill positions that UK unemployed would not do,now once that the UK is out of the EU,what are the UKIP policies for forcing the unemployed off benefits and into low paid and unskilled jobs?.........how are they going to address the concerns of the population about the costs of benefits?..............raising the minimum wage?...........cutting benefits?............I think the disaffected,left behind white working class that UKIP claim to represent would like to know these policies as they will be affecting them in the future.

 

Well you'd need to ask a UKIP representative for their policies or go look them up yourself!

 

But it doesn't really matter because you are wrong that the disaffected, left-behind working class need to know UKIP have the right policies to deal with their issues. You surely don't think most people cast their vote only after careful study of party manifestos and analysis of policies do you? No, most people do not have that level of interest. Most people will vote for someone if they see something in it for them, or policies seem to broadly appeal to the issues that concern them or because the other parties have annoyed them. And annoyance with other parties for not addressing concerns that UKIP promise to address is enought to win UKIP votes... as we have seen.

[Guest]

Too late now, your MEP (if UKIP) is on the EU gravy train for the next 5 years and, on the evidence of the record of past UKIP MEPs in the previous tenure, most likely to found doing not very much at all at any given time, other than furiously engaging in nepotism.

 

Not as if some of us didn't try to get this across before the election.

 

Well at least a message has been sent that the status quo wont doodle do any more and its time real reform.

 

(by "status quo I'm not referring to Rick Parfett and Francis Rossi, they are awesome, a great example of an Anglo-Italian partnership. )

[Mister M]

Yes but you don't win back UKIP votes by addressing the issues that concern people who don't vote UKIP.

 

---------- Post added 05-06-2014 at 14:10 ----------

 

 

I didn't trivialise the damage done by bankers - I said it was scandalous.

 

Ask yourself this... would you consider voting for a different party if that party was ignoring the issues that mattered to you whilst party supporters trashed your views and called you dumb on public forums? Didn't think so.

 

What is dumb is behaving in a way that will encourage people to do something you don't want them to do.

 

---------- Post added 05-06-2014 at 14:22 ----------

 

 

That's right. You are pointing out a shortcoming but in doing so you have not done anything to address concerns about immigration. Therefore people voting for UKIP because of concerns about immigration will not stop voting UKIP.

 

And how will UKIP address everyone's concerns about who moves in next door? I thought as a generally right wing party they would be against the nanny state, not in favour of it?

[dosxuk]

Well you'd need to ask a UKIP representative for their policies or go look them up yourself!

 

a.k.a don't know, don't care

 

But it doesn't really matter because you are wrong that the disaffected, left-behind working class need to know UKIP have the right policies to deal with their issues. You surely don't think most people cast their vote only after careful study of party manifestos and analysis of policies do you? No, most people do not have that level of interest. Most people will vote for someone if they see something in it for them, or policies seem to broadly appeal to the issues that concern them or because the other parties have annoyed them. And annoyance with other parties for not addressing concerns that UKIP promise to address is enought to win UKIP votes... as we have seen.

 

See

 

The problem with popularism but no substance, like UKIP represent, is that it just results in things getting worse and worse. We now have less people actively working in the EU to improve the lot of the average Brit, yet you seem to think this is some kind of success

[Mister M]

Are you still there Zamo?

[chalga]

Well you'd need to ask a UKIP representative for their policies or go look them up yourself!

 

But it doesn't really matter because you are wrong that the disaffected, left-behind working class need to know UKIP have the right policies to deal with their issues. You surely don't think most people cast their vote only after careful study of party manifestos and analysis of policies do you? No, most people do not have that level of interest. Most people will vote for someone if they see something in it for them, or policies seem to broadly appeal to the issues that concern them or because the other parties have annoyed them.

 

What's in it for the disaffected,left behind white working class,yes,this is what I am asking...........what is UKIP going to do for them after they have stopped low skilled immigrants taking their jobs..........we know that this is a fallacy because of the Gill[uKIP] experience..........they are not taking their jobs because Gills jobs were there for them and they didn't want them........so they must be after UKIP doing more than that.........so there seems to be some kind of misunderstanding here.....the same jobs that Gill was offering will still be there when the immigrants have been refused entry,so how will UKIP square the circle that,apparently,these disaffected are wanting by then telling them that there are your low waged and unskilled jobs that we have made available to you...........get off your benefits now and start working,because these people seem to want more than that...........or are they just wanting to see the back of the foreigner?

[Zamo]

What makes you think everyone saying that UKIP voters are dumb are supporters of other parties?

 

I don't think everyone is saying UKIP supporters are dumb but many have and I was replying directly to someone who had!

 

Do you think everyone who says the BNP are a bad idea is a supporter of a different party trying to attract votes to them? How about the EDL?

 

Dont' know what you mean? If someone states that voting for a party is a bad idea then they are attempting to pursuade people to not vote for them aren't they... as in vote for another party?

 

Remember polls have shown that twice as many people have said they would never vote for UKIP than those who say they would definitely vote for UKIP. Many people, from across all parties, and even those who don't support any of the parties, are in agreement that UKIP is bad for the country, and their "policies" are just populist ideas targeted at the lowest common denominator, and people are being sucked in without questioning those "policies".

 

All the parties have at least twice as many people not voting for them as voting for them!

 

And people are being sucked in by UKIP... as in they are suckers? Isn't that another way of saying they are dumb?

 

Only you and few other hardcore UKIP supporters have said that pointing out the racist and homophobic views of the numerous UKIP representatives that have subsequently been kicked out has encouraged you to vote for the party.

 

I'm no hardcore UKIP supporter. I think they have a lot of tosspot representatives and that their policies can be thin, questionable or non-existant. That said, they remain a means to an end for me. A vote for them is a message to the other parties that I am fed up that they have ignored concerns about aspects of our EU membership and with unselective, mass immigration. My vote is lost to them until those issues are being addressed.

 

You're attempting to play the underdog card, and it's nothing more than hilarious that you think doing so will stop anyone else from pointing out the latest gaffes of the bunch of incompetents that attempt to represent the party.

 

I'm not playing any sort of card. I've posted an opinion on why people vote UKIP and what will be needed to win their vote back and what won't win their vote back. I couldn't care less if people who support other parties want to ignore the advice... it's your lost vote not UKIP's!

 

Giving someone power who you don't agree with simply because someone said something true about them is far dumber.

 

People aren't persuaded to vote (or keep voting) for UKIP because you or the press highlight UKIP shortcomings (true or otherwise). They do so because you try to imply that nasty people in UKIP equates to nasty unfounded reasons for policies aimed at addressing concerns re EU membership and immigration. People are sick of being told their concerns are nasty, or racist or dumb and that can be enough to overcome any reservations about UKIP policies in order to send a 'go fornicate yourself' message!

 

But you keep on going with the 'dumb attack' tatic if you think it is working. You can lead a horse to water and all that.

[dosxuk]

Dont' know what you mean? If someone states that voting for a party is a bad idea then they are attempting to pursuade people to not vote for them aren't they... as in vote for another party?

 

Why? If I say the EDL are a useless bunch of racist thugs who have no capability of being political representatives, why does that automatically mean I'm supporting another party and I want you to vote for them?

 

 

 

All the parties have at least twice as many people not voting for them as voting for them!

 

That's not the same measurement as "will never vote for". UKIP keep polling over 60% of the UK will never vote for UKIP. The main parties have levels around 30% - 40%.

 

And people are being sucked in by UKIP... as in they are suckers? Isn't that another way of saying they are dumb?

 

People who vote for something without questioning the contradictory nature of UKIP's representatives and policies, and simply vote for them based on a summary of their populist policies are indeed being sucked in. You might take that as being dumb, but it's certainly the actions of the uninformed.

 

I'm no hardcore UKIP supporter.

 

Hardcore apologist then?

 

I think they have a lot of tosspot representatives and that their policies can be thin, questionable or non-existant. That said, they remain a means to an end for me. A vote for them is a message to the other parties that I am fed up that they have ignored concerns about aspects of our EU membership and with unselective, mass immigration. My vote is lost to them until those issues are being addressed.

 

It's all about messages with you lot isn't it, rather than action, or considering what's best for the country. But then again, UKIP have zero chance of winning a general election, so there's no chance of action.

 

I'm pretty sure the UKIP "message" will all be forgotten come next april when the parties are all out there arguing about the health service, education, the economy and things that affect everyone in their day-to-day lives.

 

I'm not playing any sort of card. I've posted an opinion on why people vote UKIP and what will be needed to win their vote back and what won't win their vote back. I couldn't care less if people who support other parties want to ignore the advice... it's your lost vote not UKIP's!

 

Oh come on, you so are. The "vote for UKIP because other people are being nasty to them" line keeps being trotted out - it's simply an appeal to the British "tradition" of supporting the underdog.

 

People aren't persuaded to vote (or keep voting) for UKIP because you or the press highlight UKIP shortcomings (true or otherwise). They do so because you try to imply that nasty people in UKIP equates to nasty unfounded reasons for policies aimed at addressing concerns re EU membership and immigration. People are sick of being told their concerns are nasty, or racist or dumb and that can be enough to overcome any reservations about UKIP policies in order to send a 'go fornicate yourself' message!

 

Then they're the dumbest of them all. I believe it's a tactic known as cutting your nose off to spite your face.

 

But you keep on going with the 'dumb attack' tatic if you think it is working. You can lead a horse to water and all that.

 

In other words, stop being nasty to UKIP

[Zamo]

And how will UKIP address everyone's concerns about who moves in next door? I thought as a generally right wing party they would be against the nanny state, not in favour of it?

 

I'm not trying to persuade anyone to vote UKIP so I don't need to sell their policies. I've made posts not to try and win support for UKIP but to try and give people who aren't inclined to vote UKIP some insight into what makes people vote for them and what might make them stop voting for them. You'd think it would be welcome insight but far from being welcomed I get attacked for it!

 

It is like on The Apprentice when contestants ignore market research that tells them the product isn't liked because they disagree with the reasons given for not liking it! Sorry but it doesn't work like that. The reasons people vote for UKIP are the reasons they vote for UKIP whether you agree or not. And the things that will make UKIP voters go back to the main parties are the things that will make them go back... not what you want them to be! It is a waste of time trying to blame the customer for their choices. You need to listen to the market research and change the offering.