Violence to girls and women.

[Plain Talker]

Totally agree ,but regarding Islam the lack of progress certainly is

 

---------- Post added 01-06-2014 at 23:44 ----------

 

do you honestly believe that ?..If so it seems you know very little about the religion outside these waters

 

Rubbish! So you know more than Muslims about their own faith do you?

[natjack]

Rubbish! So you know more than Muslims about their own faith do you?

I didn't realise Halibut was a Muslim. That's surprised me in view of some of his comments.

[Zamo]

This is totally untrue as evidenced by the many different cultural variations between Muslims worldwide.

 

The cultural mores in tribal Pakistani Muslim society are very different compared to those of British professional Muslims of Pakistani descent for example.

 

What you are trying to say in the bold is, in effect, that all Muslims are forever bound to stick to a rigidly Koranic expression of their faith which is incompatible with Western life.

I say that's errant nonsense. Muslims vary widely, as do Christians, Jews and Buddhists in the degree to which they follow the tenets of their faith and express their identity as members of that group. To pretend otherwise is very foolish and naive.

 

In Muslim countries you do find cultural variation but their religion remains central, influencing opinions and practices. I don't think Muslims would disagree with me that their religion and culture are entwined.

[longleyman]

In Muslim countries you do find cultural variation but their religion remains central, influencing opinions and practices. I don't think Muslims would disagree with me that their religion and culture are entwined.

 

In my opening post I mentioned police standing by, allowing the assault. This assault was in Pakistan. As this thread is about violence to women and girls I remember a report about the involvement of Pakistani police. A 13 year-old girl, was continuously gang-raped, mentally, and physically tortured by police officials during 21 days of illegal detention. This was the year 2010.

[MizsterJones]

Rubbish! So you know more than Muslims about their own faith do you?

Is Halibut a muslim then ?....how many Muslim countries have you visited by the way ?

[Zamo]

You're basically saying they need to get rid of Islam?

 

I'm saying that Islamic cultures struggle to change because challenges are countered with claims of blasphemy and there are serious consequences for that in those countries.

 

Let's face it. The progress we have made in the west is not because of religion but despite it. Religion is a man-made tool for controling and exploiting people and Islam has simply done a better job than other religions of holding on to its' power and influence... which is why the Muslim world has been less progressive. Until the grip that Islam has on the culture loosens, it will remain difficult to take progressive steps forward.

[natjack]

British Muslims of Pakistan descent are constantly stereotyped based on events in Pakistan. As most British people have never been to Pakistan they don't understand the huge cultural differences between the north and the south of Pakistan. The northern regions are very tribal and rigid where as further south in the urban areas people are generally more liberal and tolerant. Most of those from the urban areas of Pakistan consider British Pakistanis backwards as most British Pakistanis hail from the tribal north. The only exception to that being the London and Glasgow areas where things are a lot different to the towns and cities of the Midlands and Northern England which still have a lot of issues of segregation and educational underachievement. Although things are better than they were 10 to 15 years ago.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here? You seem to be saying urban British Pakistani descent people are backward in contrast to modern urban Pakistani people because most of their ancesters came from the North? In regard to some of the ideas you and others have stated on here, recently and in the past, I might agree with you.

 

But just going back a few weeks, we were talking about tribal elders, in N.Pakistan, ordering village men to gang rape a woman as a punishment. You're not saying that would ever happen here, ordered by a Sharia court? Or that it would be acceptable even to the most old school? Because I don't think it would be acceptable to the majority of Sheffield Muslims I know of. So I think you're doing your fellow Pakistanis an injustice saying that.

 

---------- Post added 02-06-2014 at 12:16 ----------

 

I'd agree with that Zamo. Stripped down to the bare bones and leaving all the rhetoric and fear out of the equation, that about sums it up.

 

I think that education and bringing the 'homelands' up to modern day living standards is the key to all this. Sadly, most of the first world seems to be being dragged back rather than forwards at the moment, due to mass immigration from all points of the compass. So is it a losing battle?

[Waldo]

I'm saying that Islamic cultures struggle to change because challenges are countered with claims of blasphemy and there are serious consequences for that in those countries.

 

Let's face it. The progress we have made in the west is not because of religion but despite it. Religion is a man-made tool for controling and exploiting people and Islam has simply done a better job than other religions of holding on to its' power and influence... which is why the Muslim world has been less progressive. Until the grip that Islam has on the culture loosens, it will remain difficult to take progressive steps forward.

 

Yes, ultimately, it's repressive and retards development...

 

If they had any sense, they'd drop old archaic paradigms and purse an agenda of global financial, intelligence and military domination, like everyone else.

 

Do you really want them getting their act together?

[flamingjimmy]

And here in the UK, an average of 2 women are murdered each week (109 approx, per year, give or take) by their partner or ex partner. Please explain to me how that statistic is any less tragic and appalling, than the numbers you quote above?

 

Simple maths

 

Pakistan's popuation is between 2 and three times the size of the UK's yet the rate of domestic murders is 10 times higher.

 

---------- Post added 02-06-2014 at 13:13 ----------

 

Poor Islamic countries use the Koran to justify their treatment of women today, in the same way that we used the Bible in the Middle Ages. It's not really about religion (although in my view religion never helps), but about ignorance, superstition, fear and poverty.

 

To me that seems kind of silly, because religion is based on ignorance, fear, superstition, poverty, and power.

 

---------- Post added 02-06-2014 at 13:23 ----------

 

Western civilisation hides its crimes behind sophisticated words but the actions show the reality.

 

In developing countries especially in the more remote areas they are more upfront about it.

 

That is the only real difference

 

Do you really believe that?

 

You think that people get stoned to death for thought crimes or for being raped frequently in western countries, but it's just hidden?

 

Seriously?

[erebus]

It seems everyone forgets one thing, Britain is an island, and we are natural bullies, and our proud history screams of what bullying achieved. We have bullied our way through nations for hundreds of years, and continue this proud practice. We share with the USA a love of war, where we invade and destroy societies, and dream of further conquest, which is another word for state sanctioned murder, which we are very good at.

 

In the private sphere we continue this practice, the partner is both a verbal punchbag, someone to humiliate, and slap around. All the statistics prove my point, as does our wonderful British history of carnage. Why all this carnage, well we want resources, which translates as get rich quick at others expense, which is just externalizing and legalizing bullying.

 

But for the really greedy its just not enough, and we have now turned on our own, exploiting what is left to sell off to corporate interests, who run the wage slave business better than the state, which again is a form of bullying.

 

So from one perspective the figures of domestic violence, the rape figures, the child molesting, and not forgetting the cherry, murders, are proof our repressive culture has truly trickled down as so many want to get in on the act.

 

People on thei s site love a bit of bullying, spreading a bit of hate, through bullying through exploiting religions that they know little about, but the main adherents are of a darker hew, which was always their point. Scapegoating is a favorite pastime on this site, where the bile boils constantly, kicking those that cannot fight back is a favorite sport, while the real thieves and their powerful friends politicians steal the post office, the NHS and whatever they can transfer from what the public own, into the grubby greedy hands of corporate fascists hands, where wages are breadline, and bullying is fun to watch. We invent rules so we can fine people, we sedate children because we can, because of the cuts , and nurses having to look after 30 or so instead of 8 patients, we are changing hospitals into abattoirs, for the elderly, and care homes glorified funeral parlors for most.

 

So let us rejoice in the fact we all love to bully, within the family, within the workplace, on sites like this, in fact wherever we can as we all need to get our frustration out, and why not let the innocent suffer, thus why change the habits of generations?