Violence to girls and women.

[Zamo]

The right to be hit by their husband if they disobey him.

 

http://quran.com/4/34

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

 

 

I can't find any verses that give a women the right to hit her husband if he disobeys her.

 

 

This verse says that a woman is equal in status to half a man.

 

http://quran.com/2/282

And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are not two men [available], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses.

 

Women are only half a person when it comes to inheritance too as confirmed by the practice note issued by the Law Society on how to compile a Sharia compliant will.

[Guest]

The right to be hit by their husband if they disobey him.

 

http://quran.com/4/34

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

 

 

I can't find any verses that give a women the right to hit her husband if he disobeys her.

 

 

This verse says that a woman is equal in status to half a man.

 

http://quran.com/2/282

And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are not two men [available], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses.

 

hand picking out somethings you have absolutley no understanding of, its context and how it was even understood by Muhammad himself (who never hit his wives and none of them ever complained about him).

 

Does this mean non Muslim violence to their women is due to this verse:loopy:

 

As for the equality in inheritence, inform me, how is your knowledge of Islamic Jurisprudence and where did you study it?

 

Fyi, certain criteria existed then due to the higher responsibilty placed on men for caring of the women and siblings.

 

You also may want to learn- the woman keeps her entire money, 100%. So if a man inherited £30k and a woman the £20k, she keeps hers, whilst his is spent on the upkeeping the family and household.

 

After the spends, he could be left with 50% or less.

Simple really.

[Guest]

by Muhammad himself (who never hit his wives and none of them ever complained about him).

 

 

I love the certainty in which you say this, like you can vouch for him because you were there and knew them.

[Guest]

You judge by referencing what it says in the sales brouchure whilst I judge based on the actual product delivered.

 

Go share your research with the women of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudia Arabia etc. Go see whether Islamic culture is living up to the sales broucher hype. And then come back and tell us which one of us is talking out of their backside.

 

Tell me, why do (in the 21st century) you have women still used as some sort of sexual object, commodity?

 

Why do you have women paraded half naked in sport promotions or other tours? Why in the 21st century do you still have a half clad woman walk around the boxing ring, so the male dominated crowd can lick their lips, wolf whistle her:hihi:

 

Is this how your view of women is in the West- is that how you want Muslims to 'fit in'

 

It's because they have been indoctrined to believe they are nothing but objects, used and abused. You may call it 'freedom' and some may call it 'commodities', enslaved to consumerism.

 

---------- Post added 08-06-2014 at 08:23 ----------

 

I love the certainty in which you say this, like you can vouch for him because you were there and knew them.

 

Yes we can.

 

No report in all the authentic narrations (which are all documented) state anything about him being abusive.

 

Do a search- I don't want to do your homework.

 

Anything else?

 

---------- Post added 08-06-2014 at 08:24 ----------

 

Time to go and enjoy my Sunday with my family - my wife, kids.

[daneha]

hand picking out somethings you have absolutley no understanding of, its context and how it was even understood by Muhammad himself (who never hit his wives and none of them ever complained about him).

 

I don't need to learn anything, you asked for proof from the Quran, I simply provided it, you can continue to ignore it, interpret it in a way that suits you or believe that millions of Muslim men oppress women because the Quran says women are inferior and must obey men. Your choice.

[MizsterJones]

Tell me, why do (in the 21st century) you have women still used as some sort of sexual object, commodity?

 

Why do you have women paraded half naked in sport promotions or other tours? Why in the 21st century do you still have a half clad woman walk around the boxing ring, so the male dominated crowd can lick their lips, wolf whistle her:hihi:

 

Is this how your view of women is in the West- is that how you want Muslims to 'fit in'

 

It's because they have been indoctrined to believe they are nothing but objects, used and abused. You may call it 'freedom' and some may call it 'commodities', enslaved to consumerism.

 

---------- Post added 08-06-2014 at 08:23 ----------

 

 

Yes we can.

 

No report in all the authentic narrations (which are all documented) state anything about him being abusive.

Do a search- I don't want to do your homework.

 

Anything else?

 

---------- Post added 08-06-2014 at 08:24 ----------

 

Time to go and enjoy my Sunday with my family - my wife, kids.

Well from the reaction when someone tried to name a teddy Mohammed I doubt if anyone had the cojones to slag him off..as Robert Vaughan said in The Magnificent Seven..."No enemies...living"

[daneha]

 

Yes we can.

 

No report in all the authentic narrations (which are all documented) state anything about him being abusive.

 

Do a search- I don't want to do your homework.

 

Anything else?

 

---------- Post added 08-06-2014 at 08:24 ----------

 

Time to go and enjoy my Sunday with my family - my wife, kids.

 

You must selectively read your Islamic texts.

 

Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

 

Bukhari (72:715) - "Aisha said, 'I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'" This is Muhammad's own wife complaining of the abuse that the women of her religions suffer relative to other women.

 

Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

[Zamo]

Again, you failed answer the question and demonstrate.

 

1400 years ago, Islam gave women the rights that were unprecedented. Women became free, independent, respectable and integral part of the communities. They led, taught, and lived side-by-side men as their equal partner of the society.

 

But over time, cultures overtook faith- traditions overruled Islamic teachings and women lost what was given to them.

 

You've had a couple of examples of how the Quran teaches discrimination against women. Doesn't mean culture doesn't share blame too but the religion and the culture are effectively one and the same so what is the point in trying to proportion out blame? Both are the product of man and therefore suffer from the shortcomings of man... you don't really think the Quran is an instruction manual from god do you?

 

The point I was trying to make is that when religion and culture are so entwined it is difficult to change things. Assigning religious status to cultural practices makes it blasphemous to challenge and that stiffles change. The religion holds them back whilst other cultures (where religion has lost its dominance) have progressed in terms of addressing inequality.

 

---------- Post added 08-06-2014 at 09:07 ----------

 

Tell me, why do (in the 21st century) you have women still used as some sort of sexual object, commodity?

 

Why do you have women paraded half naked in sport promotions or other tours? Why in the 21st century do you still have a half clad woman walk around the boxing ring, so the male dominated crowd can lick their lips, wolf whistle her:hihi:

 

Is this how your view of women is in the West- is that how you want Muslims to 'fit in'

 

It's because they have been indoctrined to believe they are nothing but objects, used and abused. You may call it 'freedom' and some may call it 'commodities', enslaved to consumerism.

 

I think it is great that we have a culture where a woman can show a bit of flesh without the risk of being thrown in prison or worse.

[natjack]

Tell me, why do (in the 21st century) you have women still used as some sort of sexual object, commodity?

 

Why do you have women paraded half naked in sport promotions or other tours? Why in the 21st century do you still have a half clad woman walk around the boxing ring, so the male dominated crowd can lick their lips, wolf whistle her:hihi:

 

Is this how your view of women is in the West- is that how you want Muslims to 'fit in'

 

It's because they have been indoctrined to believe they are nothing but objects, used and abused. You may call it 'freedom' and some may call it 'commodities', enslaved to consumerism.

You Muslim types don't half talk some rubbish. You might be able to groom a few needy little girls from disadvantaged backgrounds into bad ways, but no one HAS western women doing anything. In case you've not noticed, telling Western women not to do something, usually has totally the opposite effect. Losing battle, mate. Whatever they do, they do it because of the rewards they get for it, whether that's running a company or pole dancing. In the case of the promotions girls, either because they enjoy being looked at, or because it's good money. As for the women in the boxing ring, I've not noticed any of the Muslim boxers objecting and refusing to fight because a scantily clad girl comes into the ring when they're in it. Total hypocrisy, shall we say? Also, again in case you've not noticed, there are women actually boxing as well, one of whom won a medal for us at the last Olympics.

 

Open your closed mind, drop the propaganda you're being fed and look around, stop generalising from a section of the workforce you don't like and applying it to all western women, and look at how most women are. I'm offended on behalf of women, the way you talk about them. It's outrageous.

 

---------- Post added 08-06-2014 at 10:56 ----------

 

What I'm getting at, is that when a lot of British people hear Pakistan they immediately think backward country (snipped here and there for brevity, you can read the whole post above, folks, #146)

 

What you also don't seem to understand is that most educated people (from Pakistan) don't want to come to the UK. Some might come here to study but then they will move on to bigger and better things.

I think we understand this quite well. Other countries are getting the cream and we're left to support the uneducated, superstitious dross, is that what you're telling us now?

 

Again, I have to say you're not presenting British (Pakistani) Muslims in a good light. Don't go into PR, is all I can say But thanks for going into such detail to attempt to answer my points.

[Bounce]

I think we understand this quite well. Other countries are getting the cream and we're left to support the uneducated, superstitious dross, is that what you're telling us now?.

 

The British Empire went to most of these countries first and then later on deliberately invited the most uneducated and unskilled people from former colonies to work here with the intention of using them and sending them back. The exact same thing is happening now with unskilled Eastern Europeans while it is made very difficult for educated non EU migrants to settle here. They charge the ones that are here extortionate university fees and then tell them to move on in favour of unskilled labourers from Eastern Europe. The question is why do many companies in the UK favour unskilled immigrants over unskilled British people. The same reason is given time and time again, the British are lazy.

 

Again, I have to say you're not presenting British (Pakistani) Muslims in a good light. Don't go into PR, is all I can say But thanks for going into such detail to attempt to answer my points.

 

British Pakistani Muslims from rural Azad Kashmir and Pakistan have done much better than the equivalent unskilled class of whites or blacks in the towns and cities where they live. If you look at most of the business's they are not white or black owned but Pakistani owned. This is at the heart of the problem in many northern towns but not just in the north. People of other communities are jealous of Pakistani success and it goes back decades way before religion was even a factor. Bringing religion into it is just the new way of disguising the same racism.

 

The fact is while other communities were content to sit on benefits after the collapse of UK industries the Pakistanis and Bangladeshis were not. They worked hard, many faced regular abuse and racism while driving cabs. The Asian Muslims saved up money instead of wasting it on drink and were able to open business's. Considering these people came from the most rural and uneducated parts of their countries it just shows how intelligent and innovative Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims are.

 

Canada which also has a large Pakistani population is a good example of what a mainly educated urban Pakistani immigrant population is capable of. Pakistani Muslims in Canada are among the most successful group of immigrants in that country.