Bounce Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 would you post them in their entirety so we can see just how far they're being taken out of context, please? I think that would be useful for most of us, not being koranic scholars like yourself. I'm not a Quranic scholar and one doesn't need to be to spot these snippets which are deliberately designed to demonise Islam and Muslims. Islamophobic version posted by Daneha/Ivanava Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires. True version 1. Bukhari 72:715 the complete hadith: Bukhari :: Book 7 :: Volume 72 :: Hadith 715 Narrated 'Ikrima: Rifa'a divorced his wife whereupon 'AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. 'Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's Apostle came, 'Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!" When 'AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment, 'Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's Apostle! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa'a." Allah's Apostle said, to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa'a unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." Then the Prophet saw two boys with 'Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that 'AbdurRahman said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow," Hadith ends. Islamophobic version posted by Daneha/Ivanava Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain." True version 2. Muslim 4:2127 the complete hadith: Muslim :: Book 4 : Hadith 2127 Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother? We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was 'A'isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? She said: Whatsoever the people conceal, Allah will know it. He said: Gabriel came to me when you saw me. He called me and he concealed it from you. I responded to his call, but I too concealed it from you (for he did not come to you), as you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to awaken you, fearing that you may be frightened. He (Gabriel) said: Your Lord has commanded you to go to the inhabitants of Baqi' (to those lying in the graves) and beg pardon for them. I said: Messenger of Allah, how should I pray for them (How should I beg forgiveness for them)? He said: Say, Peace be upon the inhabitants of this city (graveyard) from among the Believers and the Muslims, and may Allah have mercy on those who have gone ahead of us, and those who come later on, and we shall, God willing, join you. Hadith ends. ---------- Post added 21-06-2014 at 18:25 ---------- I agree, the sensible thing to do if I am taking verses out of context is to post those verses in their entirety. No need to explain them though because if they are the word of God I am sure that God will have created me with the ability to understand them, amusing God exists and the words are Gods words, which I very much doubt. Still haven't answered my question have you? ---------- Post added 21-06-2014 at 18:28 ---------- Final point, I'm not going to post any more texts here. If you want a debate on Islamic texts start a thread on it. Now which one of you is going to answer my on topic question first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daneha Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I'm not a Quranic scholar and one doesn't need to be to spot these snippets which are deliberately designed to demonise Islam and Muslims. Islamophobic version posted by Daneha/Ivanava Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires. True version 1. Bukhari 72:715 the complete hadith: Bukhari :: Book 7 :: Volume 72 :: Hadith 715 Narrated 'Ikrima: Rifa'a divorced his wife whereupon 'AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. 'Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's Apostle came, 'Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!" When 'AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment, 'Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's Apostle! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa'a." Allah's Apostle said, to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa'a unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." Then the Prophet saw two boys with 'Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that 'AbdurRahman said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow," Hadith ends. Islamophobic version posted by Daneha/Ivanava Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain." True version 2. Muslim 4:2127 the complete hadith: Muslim :: Book 4 : Hadith 2127 Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother? We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was 'A'isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? She said: Whatsoever the people conceal, Allah will know it. He said: Gabriel came to me when you saw me. He called me and he concealed it from you. I responded to his call, but I too concealed it from you (for he did not come to you), as you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to awaken you, fearing that you may be frightened. He (Gabriel) said: Your Lord has commanded you to go to the inhabitants of Baqi' (to those lying in the graves) and beg pardon for them. I said: Messenger of Allah, how should I pray for them (How should I beg forgiveness for them)? He said: Say, Peace be upon the inhabitants of this city (graveyard) from among the Believers and the Muslims, and may Allah have mercy on those who have gone ahead of us, and those who come later on, and we shall, God willing, join you. Hadith ends. ---------- Post added 21-06-2014 at 18:25 ---------- Still haven't answered my question have you? ---------- Post added 21-06-2014 at 18:28 ---------- Final point, I'm not going to post any more texts here. If you want a debate on Islamic texts start a thread on it. Now which one of you is going to answer my on topic question first? They are just a long way of saying the same thing that I posted, why did Mohammad feel the need to be violent towards 'A'isha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longleyman Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 Hello longleyman. I think that given that a very large majority of what you've written on this thread has been anti Muslim, rather than anti violence towards women that the thread title is dishonest. I think you are also dishonest. You should have called it 'I dislike Islam'. I don't think you are really that bothered about violence to women and girls at all. I think your prime motivation is to pour scorn on Islam and to ferment ill feeling towards all those who are of that faith. A 21-year-old woman was raped and hanged from a tree in Pakistan, police said, in a case bearing a chilling resemblance to a spate of similar attacks that sparked outrage in neighbouring India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 A 21-year-old woman was raped and hanged from a tree in Pakistan, police said, in a case bearing a chilling resemblance to a spate of similar attacks that sparked outrage in neighbouring India. A PhD student from Saudi was murdered in a Colchester park this week. A young man was shot and killed on Manor Field, in Sheffield overnight. A young Sudanese student was stabbed and murdered in Sheffield city centre the other day. So, go on:- What precisely 'is' your point, in throwing yourrandom stats at us? Apart, of course, your blatant Islamophobic frothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daneha Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 A PhD student from Saudi was murdered in a Colchester park this week. A young man was shot and killed on Manor Field, in Sheffield overnight. A young Sudanese student was stabbed and murdered in Sheffield city centre the other day. So, go on:- What precisely 'is' your point, in throwing yourrandom stats at us? Apart, of course, your blatant Islamophobic frothing? Was all these murders parts of Gods plan for humanity, God must have known that all these murders would happen when it created the murderers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Talker Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Was all these murders parts of Gods plan for humanity, God must have known that all these murders would happen when it created the murderers. We aren't talking about God' plans, we're talking about longleyman's persistent having pops at Islam, and throwing random stats into the mix, without rhyme Or reason. (apart, of course, from his over enthusiastic and obvious frothing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longleyman Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 A PhD student from Saudi was murdered in a Colchester park this week. A young man was shot and killed on Manor Field, in Sheffield overnight. A young Sudanese student was stabbed and murdered in Sheffield city centre the other day. So, go on:- What precisely 'is' your point, in throwing yourrandom stats at us? Apart, of course, your blatant Islamophobic frothing? They were not hung from trees. Please note, I mentioned India to appease the Muslims with a persecution complex.(SEE POST 254) ---------- Post added 21-06-2014 at 22:01 ---------- A PhD student from Saudi was murdered in a Colchester park this week. Officers said there are many possible motives, including the fact Ms Almanea was wearing full Muslim dress. ---------- Post added 21-06-2014 at 22:14 ---------- A PhD student from Saudi was murdered in a Colchester park this week. So, go on:- What precisely 'is' your point, in throwing yourrandom stats at us? Apart, of course, your blatant Islamophobic frothing? My point is :- I am highlighting barbaric acts to WOMEN and GIRLS in accordance with this thread. I could mention violence to men ( ref. your examples) but this thread is about violence to women and girls. You mention me frothing. Don't try browbeating me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MizsterJones Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 ************************ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longleyman Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 _________[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MizsterJones Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Don't quote a snippet from the Qur'an and talk cobblers and try to make the verse say something it doesn't actually mean, without providing the exegesis and the hermeneutics of it. If I were stupid enough, or sly enough, I could quote the verse in the bible, where God told Joshua not to leave a single soul living, in the land he was invading, and use it to justify putting someone to death. But a) unlike you, I understand the concept of exegesis and hermeneutics, and b) unlike you, I'm not deliberately misquoting scripture, to score nonexistent points to promote/foment religious hatred. ---------- Post added 19-06-2014 at 21:46 ---------- Are you asking me 'when I stopped beating my spouse', FJ? lol. No, of course I do not believe it us right to be violent toward your spouse (unless it is to defend yourself against them attacking you, of course) My interpretation of that verse you quote (not in it's entirety, incidentally, as the verse continues by saying that the 'beating' -not necessarily a good or 100% accurate translation of the original Arabic word's meaning- that no mark should be left on her, by the 'striking/beating', and prior to that quote, that she should be admonished,) is that the verse was speaking to the time, when it was considered to be acceptable to strike your wife- think about this being 1,000 tears before our own laws in the UK about the 'rule of thumb' that the wife could be beaten so long as the rod used was no thicker than his thumb. I think that the verses were to be interpreted ( for then and for now) as an instruction to look at, and use other means to admonish your spouse, such as reasoning with her, before resorting to striking her. And, for back then, as a violent society, I think it was trying to prevent the striking of the wife from going "too far", as it quite clearly said that there was to be no mark left. Do you mean like this one the Qur'an says that on the day of resurrection, the girl-child who was put to death merely for being female, will be asked "for what crime were you put to death?" (surat al Takwir verses 8 and 9) and the punishment for those who killed her will be great. From a earlier post by none other than yourself..the piece in bold is a total fabrication Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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