White working class boys, bottom of class.

[willman]

This is a really complex issue. It does nobody any favours to discuss it in the simplistic terms that some on here would like to do.

 

In my opinion, there are several key factors that cause white working class males to reject schooling. That is what is happening, they are rejecting schooling, not trying and failing.

 

Two key areas need close consideration.

 

First of all, these young males need some motivation to conform. There aren't many job opportunities out there for them. The jobs aren't that well paid either. So, why conform? They need opportunities and a vision of a decent future.

 

Then, there needs to be a huge debate about the curriculum. Latin and History might have served Michael Gove well. It serves many people well, but not all. Perhaps some people need a different diet. We should certainly be providing more vocational options post-14.

 

Of course, there will still be a rump who wont conform, we can deal with them later.

 

Throughout history we have suffered periods where employment has been in short supply or it has been unstable, are we to believe that back then white working class children also came bottom of the tables,especially as they would have been 90% of the attendees.

I do have anecdotal evidence of parent telling teachers they weren't worried about little Johnnys results 'cos they had him a job in the pit lined up.

 

The only people guilty of failing the children are the parents.

[Guest sibon]

Throughout history we have suffered periods where employment has been in short supply or it has been unstable, are we to believe that back then white working class children also came bottom of the tables,especially as they would have been 90% of the attendees.

I do have anecdotal evidence of parent telling teachers they weren't worried about little Johnnys results 'cos they had him a job in the pit lined up.

 

The only people guilty of failing the children are the parents.

 

I went to school in a very white, very working class bit of South Yorkshire, a long time ago. Lots of my contemporaries behaved well enough, because they knew that they had a job down the pit at sixteen. They didn't work very hard at school though, because they weren't interested, or very good at it. Similar to today, but with extra jobs.

 

The parents do have to take some of the blame, but so do successive governments and the teaching profession. As I said above, given a reasonable future and a relevant curriculum, we would see far more of these lads engaging properly in education.

[poppet2]

 

In my opinion, there are several key factors that cause white working class males to reject schooling.

 

First of all, these young males need some motivation to conform. There aren't many job opportunities out there for them. The jobs aren't that well paid either. So, why conform? They need opportunities and a vision of a decent future.

 

.

 

This can be applied to all males of any ethnicity.

But first jobs are never well paid and never have been, regardless of your ethnicity.

 

---------- Post added 18-06-2014 at 17:04 ----------

 

I went to school in a very white, very working class bit of South Yorkshire, a long time ago. Lots of my contemporaries behaved well enough, because they knew that they had a job down the pit at sixteen.

 

But why wouldn't any parent want more aspirations for their child, then to go down pit?

[tzijlstra]

Except there are more single parent families amongst Afro/ Caribbeans

 

Thanks, you are becoming my favourite stalker with comprehension problems. Can you re-read the last clause in the second paragraph?

 

---------- Post added 18-06-2014 at 20:09 ----------

 

Oops, forgot to add smileys to avoid coming across intimidating

[Oh Carol]

Thanks, you are becoming my favourite stalker with comprehension problems. Can you re-read the last clause in the second paragraph?

 

---------- Post added 18-06-2014 at 20:09 ----------

 

Oops, forgot to add smileys to avoid coming across intimidating

I understood it first time without re-reading!

Certain races do have more broken home problems statistically than others if you could possibly comprehend that......... which you did not!

And please delete me from your favorites list.silly smileys and all.

[The Joker]

And please delete me from your favorites list.

 

There's a favourites list? I knew there was an ignore list...

[Anna B]

In spite of all their bravado and swagger I think these kids are scared.

Scared of failing, so they don't try (then they can't fail,) scared of finding their place in the world - they don't know how to so regress to being perennial children / teenagers, scared of real challenge - they lack backbone and perseverance.

 

Self confidence is fundamental to all these, as is self discipline, but these haven't been sufficiently nurtured, and so they cling to their equally ineffective peer group for support, where effective role models would be more useful.

This lack of self confidence is covered up with an exagerated 'couldn't care less' attitude and outright defiance and indiference.

 

What do you think?

[tinfoilhat]

 

---------- Post added 18-06-2014 at 17:04 ----------

 

[/color]

 

But why wouldn't any parent want more aspirations for their child, then to go down pit?

 

Have you never heard of goldthorpe? Half the residents want that now and the buggers have been shut 20 years!

[Guest sibon]

Have you never heard of goldthorpe? Half the residents want that now and the buggers have been shut 20 years!

 

At the time, it was a good job. Tough, but well paid.

 

Miners were true wealth creators. Unlike many of the "professions" that people aspire to today.

[tinfoilhat]

In spite of all their bravado and swagger I think these kids are scared.

Scared of failing, so they don't try (then they can't fail,) scared of finding their place in the world - they don't know how to so regress to being perennial children / teenagers, scared of real challenge - they lack backbone and perseverance.

 

Self confidence is fundamental to all these, as is self discipline, but these haven't been sufficiently nurtured, and so they cling to their equally ineffective peer group for support, where effective role models would be more useful.

This lack of self confidence is covered up with an exagerated 'couldn't care less' attitude and outright defiance and indiference.

 

What do you think?

I think boys especially are scared of appearing to bookish for fear of getting the mick taken out of them. Very little is expected of them so they have low expectations themselves.

 

Poor role models in the media don't help either.