People should be fined for not using their indicators

[DT Ralge]

And would you still describe a signal for existing a mini roundabout as superfluous and unnecessary even if it benefits another road user, and doesn't cause confusion or loss of car control.

 

Yes since the signal cannot be given and received usefully in the limited time the giver is on the very small roundabout that is a mini r'bout.

There's a clue in the name and it's not just me that says this.

Carry on giving this signal, by all means.

It does no harm but we don't think it does any good or benefits anyone either.

[daneha]

Yes since the signal cannot be given and received usefully in the limited time the giver is on the very small roundabout that is a mini r'bout.

There's a clue in the name and it's not just me that says this.

Carry on giving this signal, by all means.

It does no harm but we don't think it does any good or benefits anyone either.

 

So you have made a unilateral decision which contradicts the highway code, that an indicator benefits no one on a mini roundabout, despite the fact they do benefit many road users.

 

Here is one of the many mini roundabout that aren't that small, it definitely big enough to justify indicating to exit.

 

Here is another one large enough to justify indicating, and 10 meters from the exists there are likley to be pedestrians crossing the road, they would benefit from knowing you are about to exit.

 

 

Here's what the government say about them.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/3899/mini-roundabouts-report.pdf

Although it is an offence for a car driver to disobey the mini-roundabout traffic sign, many drivers:

•overrun the central island;

•do not give way;

•do not indicate;

•do not slow down; and,

•drive to the right of the central island.

 

The Highway Code states that mini-roundabouts should be approached in the same way as normal roundabouts and that ‘all vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so’. It also reminds drivers that there is ‘less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal’

 

No were does it tell people not to indicate, less time to indicate does not mean don't indicate.

[DT Ralge]

So you have made a unilateral decision which contradicts the highway code, that an indicator benefits no one on a mini roundabout, despite the fact they do benefit many road users.

 

Here is one of the many mini roundabout that aren't that small, it definitely big enough to justify indicating to exit.

 

Here is another one large enough to justify indicating, and 10 meters from the exists there are likley to be pedestrians crossing the road, they would benefit from knowing you are about to exit.

 

 

Here's what the government say about them.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/3899/mini-roundabouts-report.pdf

Although it is an offence for a car driver to disobey the mini-roundabout traffic sign, many drivers:

•overrun the central island;

•do not give way;

•do not indicate;

•do not slow down; and,

•drive to the right of the central island.

 

The Highway Code states that mini-roundabouts should be approached in the same way as normal roundabouts and that ‘all vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so’. It also reminds drivers that there is ‘less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal’

 

No were does it tell people not to indicate, less time to indicate does not mean don't indicate.

 

Ok, so you have found "mini" roundabouts the size of a village when compared to most (cf on the way through Dronfield, Unstone and elsewhere).

There may well be a benefit of a signal to leave these.

[daneha]

Ok, so you have found "mini" roundabouts the size of a village when compared to most (cf on the way through Dronfield, Unstone and elsewhere).

There may well be a benefit of a signal to leave these.

 

When giving instruction to new and more experienced drivers one as to consider the remote possibility that they will drive allover the country, not just in places with very small mini roundabouts. This is why they are advised to signal there intentions when it will of benefit to other road users, but don't signal if it will be confusing or dangerous to do so. It is then their call on when it will benefit and when it is dangerous, instructing someone not to do indicate at a mini roundabout would be deemed poor instruction because they will assume that you mean all mini roundabout and in every situation, which would obviously be incorrect.

[DT Ralge]

When giving instruction to new and more experienced drivers one as to consider the remote possibility that they will drive allover the country, not just in places with very small mini roundabouts. This is why they are advised to signal there intentions when it will of benefit to other road users, but don't signal if it will be confusing or dangerous to do so. It is then their call on when it will benefit and when it is dangerous, instructing someone not to do indicate at a mini roundabout would be deemed poor instruction because they will assume that you mean all mini roundabout and in every situation, which would obviously be incorrect.

 

Indeed, every day is a school day and I stand corrected in my thinking that mini's don't have space around them.

My advice has been (and will remain) that there is no general need to indicate to leave a mini since there is (generally) no space or time to make it count. My default is not to signal unless I see a benefit for someone.

In training, I don't generally do "never" or "always", preferring instead to allow delegates/trainees to think their way through situations.

If they think about whether/when/how anyone will benefit from a signal they won't go far wrong ... and this thought process would put most drivers streets ahead of the average autopilot driver.

Thanks for enlightening me.

[daneha]

Indeed, every day is a school day and I stand corrected in my thinking that mini's don't have space around them.

My advice has been (and will remain) that there is no general need to indicate to leave a mini since there is (generally) no space or time to make it count. My default is not to signal unless I see a benefit for someone.

In training, I don't generally do "never" or "always", preferring instead to allow delegates/trainees to think their way through situations.

If they think about whether/when/how anyone will benefit from a signal they won't go far wrong ... and this thought process would put most drivers streets ahead of the average autopilot driver.

Thanks for enlightening me.

 

The first bit of bold removes the thought process you describe in the second bit of bold. If someone deemed to be an expert told an inexperienced driver that there is no general need to indicate to leave a mini since there is no space or time to make it count, many of those drivers would likley spend the rest of their lives not indicating even if there was someone to benefit. I also find that many of the mini roundabout are in areas with pedestrians, so quite often there are pedestrians that will benefit from knowing that you are about to exit the roundabout, by indicating they will know a 1 to 3 of car lengths earlier than if you don't indicate.

[Cyclone]

1 to 3 car lengths on a mini roundabout.

 

I will refer you back to my example

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.365542,-1.209304,3a,75y,23.45h,83.95t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sQBA0tXh2YUv0vIuCGKexoQ!2e0

 

After you pass the 1st exit (going straight ahead), the distance to the next exit is less than 1 car length.

If there were a pedestrian there. One who some how couldn't tell that you were going to take the 2nd exit, by virtue of not indicating to take the 1st. Managing to flash 1 blink of your indicator between passing the 1st exit and actually having exited would make no difference to them at all. The time between the indicator flashing and you exiting would be less than a second.

[Dardandec]

1 to 3 car lengths on a mini roundabout.

 

I will refer you back to my example

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.365542,-1.209304,3a,75y,23.45h,83.95t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sQBA0tXh2YUv0vIuCGKexoQ!2e0

 

After you pass the 1st exit (going straight ahead), the distance to the next exit is less than 1 car length.

If there were a pedestrian there. One who some how couldn't tell that you were going to take the 2nd exit, by virtue of not indicating to take the 1st. Managing to flash 1 blink of your indicator between passing the 1st exit and actually having exited would make no difference to them at all. The time between the indicator flashing and you exiting would be less than a second.

 

Agree, you don't need to indicate on a roundabout when you are going straight on, that's what I was taught on my driving lessons, that's on any roundabout.

[DT Ralge]

Agree, you don't need to indicate on a roundabout when you are going straight on, that's what I was taught on my driving lessons, that's on any roundabout.

 

There's another grenade thrown into the mix!

 

---------- Post added 29-06-2014 at 00:10 ----------

 

The first bit of bold removes the thought process you describe in the second bit of bold. If someone deemed to be an expert told an inexperienced driver that there is no general need to indicate to leave a mini since there is no space or time to make it count, many of those drivers would likley spend the rest of their lives not indicating even if there was someone to benefit. I also find that many of the mini roundabout are in areas with pedestrians, so quite often there are pedestrians that will benefit from knowing that you are about to exit the roundabout, by indicating they will know a 1 to 3 of car lengths earlier than if you don't indicate.

 

The first bit doesn't remove the thought process at all 'cos I explain why, generally, ...

You clearly read things in a very black and white way. Thinking and understanding throws up some greys, some "sometimes", some uncertainty even, you know.

 

Next topic, "indicating to pass parked vehicles" ...

 

Or "are experts really has-been drips under pressure?"

[Dardandec]

There's another grenade thrown into the mix!

 

And how do you work that out? its not rocket science. Most roundabouts have an approach and three exits so you either go left-indicate left, right-indicate right or straight on-don't indicate. When you approach a give way and there are three exits (left, right and straight on) do you indicate to go straight on? no you don't, you only indicate if you are going left or right its the same principal. If a roundabout has more than three exits you should treat the second as straight on and the others as left or right.