People should be fined for not using their indicators

[DT Ralge]

And how do you work that out? its not rocket science. Most roundabouts have an approach and three exits so you either go left-indicate left, right-indicate right or straight on-don't indicate. When you approach a give way and there are three exits (left, right and straight on) do you indicate to go straight on? no you don't, you only indicate if you are going left or right its the same principal. If a roundabout has more than three exits you should treat the second as straight on and the others as left or right.

 

The UK convention on signalling on approach to, through and off a r'bout is as you say =

Left signal on approach to go left (9 o'clock, say, on the r'bout's clock face)

No signal on approach to go straight ahead (to 12 o'clock)

Right signal on approach to go right (to 3 o'clock)

What you missed off was a signal to leave the r'bout.

Maybe i am misreading what you wrote but on leaving the r'bout:

No need to change your left signal (to a left signal) on turning left.

Indicate left at 9 to leave to go straight, to 12 o'clock

Change Indication to left at 12 to leave to go to 3 o'clock

You suggest, perhaps (correct me if I am wrong), that you were taught not to signal at all (on approach or to leave) when going straight ahead. If that is the case, as it is with more than a few drivers I meet (no, they aren't all BMW drivers!), you were either taught wrongly or you have a false memory of that particular lesson point.

 

Not forgetting, of course, the magic words "if it is of benefit" ...

 

But I didn't need to write it up 'cos it's here:

https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/roundabouts-184-to-190

[daneha]

1 to 3 car lengths on a mini roundabout.

 

I will refer you back to my example

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.365542,-1.209304,3a,75y,23.45h,83.95t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sQBA0tXh2YUv0vIuCGKexoQ!2e0

 

After you pass the 1st exit (going straight ahead), the distance to the next exit is less than 1 car length.

If there were a pedestrian there. One who some how couldn't tell that you were going to take the 2nd exit, by virtue of not indicating to take the 1st. Managing to flash 1 blink of your indicator between passing the 1st exit and actually having exited would make no difference to them at all. The time between the indicator flashing and you exiting would be less than a second.

 

Unfortunately all mini roundabouts aren't the same, some are larger than others and at 30mph an car approaching the roundabout will travel 13 meters in that second. A car on the roundabout traveling at 5mph will only travel 2 meters in that same second.

 

---------- Post added 29-06-2014 at 07:18 ----------

 

 

The first bit doesn't remove the thought process at all 'cos I explain why, generally, ...

You clearly read things in a very black and white way. Thinking and understanding throws up some greys, some "sometimes", some uncertainty even, you know.

 

You are making an huge assumption that all drivers will remember your explanation, many will just remember that you told them that there is no need to indicate, I here it all the time, my instructor said this or my instructor said that, the driver just remembers what they deem to be the important bits, and for many the bit that sticks for life is that an expert told them not to indicate.

[DT Ralge]

Unfortunately all mini roundabouts aren't the same, some are larger than others and at 30mph an car approaching the roundabout will travel 13 meters in that second. A car on the roundabout traveling at 5mph will only travel 2 meters in that same second.

 

---------- Post added 29-06-2014 at 07:18 ----------

 

You are making an huge assumption that all drivers will remember your explanation, many will just remember that you told them that there is no need to indicate, I here it all the time, my instructor said this or my instructor said that, the driver just remembers what they deem to be the important bits, and for many the bit that sticks for life is that an expert told them not to indicate.

 

I don't have any special qualities that ensure drivers remember every last bit of my advice/encouragement. I do try to get them to see the "why's".

The "why" is the benefit.

We agree on that.

Can we leave it there?

[Dardandec]

You suggest, perhaps (correct me if I am wrong), that you were taught not to signal at all (on approach or to leave) when going straight ahead. If that is the case, as it is with more than a few drivers I meet (no, they aren't all BMW drivers!), you were either taught wrongly or you have a false memory of that particular lesson point.

 

Not forgetting, of course, the magic words "if it is of benefit" ...

 

But I didn't need to write it up 'cos it's here:

https://www.gov.uk/using-the-road-159-to-203/roundabouts-184-to-190

 

I did fail to mention that in my post and was was taught to carry that out on exit, except for indicating left on entry and leaving on the first exit.

[daneha]

I don't have any special qualities that ensure drivers remember every last bit of my advice/encouragement. I do try to get them to see the "why's".

The "why" is the benefit.

We agree on that.

Can we leave it there?

 

We can and hopefully our discussion will encourage a few more people to spend more time thinking about the other road users around them and how indicating might help them.

[davyboy]

Indeed, every day is a school day and I stand corrected in my thinking that mini's don't have space around them.

My advice has been (and will remain) that there is no general need to indicate to leave a mini since there is (generally) no space or time to make it count. My default is not to signal unless I see a benefit for someone.

In training, I don't generally do "never" or "always", preferring instead to allow delegates/trainees to think their way through situations.

If they think about whether/when/how anyone will benefit from a signal they won't go far wrong ... and this thought process would put most drivers streets ahead of the average autopilot driver.

Thanks for enlightening me.

 

When I was taught many, many years ago I was told always signal your intention,even when there seems to be no reason, as you may not have seen a pedestrian/car/bike.

This was before the introduction of mini r/bs.

It only takes a slight movement of your hand to move the indicator.

So I just got into the habit.

YMMV

However it is really annoying/dangerous? for a driver to indicate right approaching a r/b and then signal left to go straight on.

This seems to be the way drivers are taught round about (pun intended) here.

Is that in the highway code??

Just googled it and the manoeuvre I described is incorrect!!

[parsoncross]

hope that includes the police themselfs they are by far the worse for not using them

[daneha]

When I was taught many, many years ago I was told always signal your intention,even when there seems to be no reason, as you may not have seen a pedestrian/car/bike.

 

It's likley because an inexperienced driver can take several seconds to process everything they see and decide if anyone will benefit form a signal, by which time it might be too late to signal. So a policy of always signaling will make sure that anyone that can benefit will benefit, and if there is no one to benefit nothing is lost.

[Cyclone]

Agree, you don't need to indicate on a roundabout when you are going straight on, that's what I was taught on my driving lessons, that's on any roundabout.

 

That's not true on a 'normal' roundabout. You indicate to exit, that includes when the exit is straight on.

People waiting at the roundabout quite possibly have not seen where you approached from, and so don't know that the exit is "straight on" for you.

 

---------- Post added 29-06-2014 at 10:05 ----------

 

Unfortunately all mini roundabouts aren't the same, some are larger than others and at 30mph an car approaching the roundabout will travel 13 meters in that second. A car on the roundabout traveling at 5mph will only travel 2 meters in that same second.

We're not talking about the approach, we're talking about the exiting procedure.

And they're not all the same, I totally agree. I didn't claim that you should never signal on them.

I would contend however that if it's 13 metres from one exit to the next (ie 1 second at 30 mhp) then it is in no way a mini roundabout, but is in fact, just a roundabout.

 

You are making an huge assumption that all drivers will remember your explanation

Huge assumption that drivers will remember things they are taught.

 

many will just remember that you told them that there is no need to indicate

Unlikely, particularly if they are doing an advanced driving course.

I here it all the time, my instructor said this or my instructor said that, the driver just remembers what they deem to be the important bits, and for many the bit that sticks for life is that an expert told them not to indicate.

You talk to drivers about what there instructors told them, all the time?

 

---------- Post added 29-06-2014 at 10:06 ----------

 

When I was taught many, many years ago I was told always signal your intention,even when there seems to be no reason, as you may not have seen a pedestrian/car/bike.

This was before the introduction of mini r/bs.

It only takes a slight movement of your hand to move the indicator.

So I just got into the habit.

 

That is what people are taught when learning to drive.

It's not what people are taught when doing advanced driving courses.

[daneha]

We're not talking about the approach, we're talking about the exiting procedure.

The one traveling at a very slow speed will be the one exiting, and at 5mph it only cover 2 meter a second. The one approaching may be traveling at 30 MPH and will cover 13 meters per second, so from signal to exist the approaching car will cover 13 meters assuming its only 2 meter for the car on the roundabout to exit.

 

And they're not all the same, I totally agree. I didn't claim that you should never signal on them.

I would contend however that if it's 13 metres from one exit to the next (ie 1 second at 30 mhp) then it is in no way a mini roundabout, but is in fact, just a roundabout.

Then you would be incorrect.

 

Huge assumption that drivers will remember things they are taught.

Yes it would be a huge assumption to assume that all drivers have an equal capacity to remember what they have been told.

 

 

You talk to drivers about what there instructors told them, all the time?

Quite frequently, Yes