People should be fined for not using their indicators

[Eater Sundae]

That's not true on a 'normal' roundabout. You indicate to exit, that includes when the exit is straight on.

People waiting at the roundabout quite possibly have not seen where you approached from, and so don't know that the exit is "straight on" for you.

 

---------- Post added 29-06-2014 at 10:05 ----------

 

We're not talking about the approach, we're talking about the exiting procedure.

And they're not all the same, I totally agree. I didn't claim that you should never signal on them.

I would contend however that if it's 13 metres from one exit to the next (ie 1 second at 30 mhp) then it is in no way a mini roundabout, but is in fact, just a roundabout.

Huge assumption that drivers will remember things they are taught.

Unlikely, particularly if they are doing an advanced driving course.

You talk to drivers about what there instructors told them, all the time?

 

---------- Post added 29-06-2014 at 10:06 ----------

 

 

That is what people are taught when learning to drive.

It's not what people are taught when doing advanced driving courses.[/QUOTE]

 

Re bib. Which appears to be the reason for this thread going round in circles. We have two groups of people. Those who think they should always signal because that's what they were taught, and therefore expect everyone to do the same, and those who were taught that they should not signal if it doesn't serve a purpose, and so do not always signal. The first group of people then think the second group aren't doing it properly, but the second group think that they are. Of course, there's also a third group, who don't signal because they can't be bothered.

 

Edit. If this is the case, then I think it is encumbant upon instructors to inform learners that there is something beyond "signal every time", for when their driving develops.

[daneha]

 

Edit. If this is the case, then I think it is encumbant upon instructors to inform learners that there is something beyond "signal every time", for when their driving develops.

 

There are also two groups of instructors, there are those that teach pupils to drive and there are those that teach pupils enough to pass a test as quickly as possible. On a test the test candidate won't be faulted for indicating when there is no one to benefit, but they will be faulted if they don't indicate when when there is someone to benefit and in most situations they will be faulted even if there is no one to benefit. Some learners are also only interested in learning enough to pass the test and they will have no interest in developing their skills.

[altus]

Which appears to be the reason for this thread going round in circles. We have two groups of people. Those who think they should always signal because that's what they were taught, and therefore expect everyone to do the same, and those who were taught that they should not signal if it doesn't serve a purpose, and so do not always signal. The first group of people then think the second group aren't doing it properly, but the second group think that they are. Of course, there's also a third group, who don't signal because they can't be bothered.

 

There's also a fourth group, or possibly just me, who realise that people aren't perfect however much training they've had and would prefer people to indicate all the time rather than rely on their fallible observation skills to let them know when they need to.

[Cyclone]

Always indicating can mean you don't bother to even to try to observe whether it's needed or not.

 

---------- Post added 29-06-2014 at 12:31 ----------

 

and in most situations they will be faulted even if there is no one to benefit.

I doubt this is true.

Some learners are also only interested in learning enough to pass the test and they will have no interest in developing their skills.

 

And some drivers go on to take advanced driver training and are specifically taught not to indicate if there is no need.

 

---------- Post added 29-06-2014 at 12:34 ----------

 

The one traveling at a very slow speed will be the one exiting, and at 5mph it only cover 2 meter a second.

So it's a car that is now moving at a fast walking pace. Why?

The one approaching may be traveling at 30 MPH and will cover 13 meters per second, so from signal to exist the approaching car will cover 13 meters assuming its only 2 meter for the car on the roundabout to exit.

And it was a pedestrian you were claiming would benefit. Though given how slowly the car is moving they're more likely to just overtake this car.

 

Then you would be incorrect.

And you will of course be able to use evidence to prove that.

Where is this mini roundabout with exits that are at least 13 metres apart? I'm fascinated, really.

 

Yes it would be a huge assumption to assume that all drivers have an equal capacity to remember what they have been told.

No, it really wouldn't. You are claiming that they can remember "always indicate", but they can't remember "indicate when there is someone to benefit".

If they can't remember basic instruction, then they will never manage to pass the driving test in the first place.

 

Quite frequently, Yes

 

What a fascinating life you must lead.

[daneha]

Always indicating can mean you don't bother to even to try to observe whether it's needed or not.

That's unlikely.

 

I doubt this is true.

You can doubt it all you like but it is true.

 

 

 

And some drivers go on to take advanced driver training and are specifically taught not to indicate if there is no need.

But they are rarely told by their instructor in which situation it is needed and which situation it isn't needed, those decisions are left to the driver, and obviously human being humans, some will feel that it is needed and some won't.

 

 

 

 

So it's a car that is now moving at a fast walking pace. Why?

There could well be a times when it is moving even slower, just after moving off from the give way line would be a good expamle.

 

 

And it was a pedestrian you were claiming would benefit. Though given how slowly the car is moving they're more likely to just overtake this car.

Pedestrians very rarely follow cars round roundabout and overtake them.

 

And you will of course be able to use evidence to prove that.

Where is this mini roundabout with exits that are at least 13 metres apart? I'm fascinated, really.

I already post a link to one expamle.

 

 

 

No, it really wouldn't. You are claiming that they can remember "always indicate", but they can't remember "indicate when there is someone to benefit".

Yes it really would, you do understand that all human aren't the same and some will only remember the main points which will lack detail.

 

 

If they can't remember basic instruction, then they will never manage to pass the driving test in the first place.

You are incorrect again.

 

What a fascinating life you must lead.

Yes its been a very interesting and fulfilling life so far.

[DT Ralge]

Cyclone's point that always indicating could lead to a perception that observations aren't needed is a point well made.

I sat with a delivery van driver a few weeks back who was doing exactly that.

He was adamant that he had been taught to always indicate.

I wasn't so bothered about the indications as about the fact that he didn't have a clue that the 38-tonner behind him merited an earlier signal of brake lights and indicator.

His response to the trucker's horn blast was profane and he was blissfully unaware in his indignation of the risk he had put us both in.

[MrsMozzy]

Cyclone's point that always indicating could lead to a perception that observations aren't needed is a point well made.

 

I made that very point in #29 and the response from others was that they'd rather someone indicated unthinkingly than not at all - fair comment, I thought.

[Cyclone]

I'd rather that they indicate deliberately or not at all. A driver who's aware and considering the situation is unlikely to be dangerous, even if they don't indicate 1% of the time when someone would benefit.

Daneha is basing his disagreement with both schools of advance motoring in the UK (not with just me) on some foolish argument about drivers being able to remember how to drive, except when they are told to judge whether an indicator is necessary or not. This, they immediately forget.

They use their judgement for everything else, when to brake, how hard, when to accelerate, when to steer, it's all judgement. But indicators, too difficult to remember.

[Doom]

I know it would be hard to police, and I know it will never happen. It's more of an angry statement really.

 

It's got to be one of my biggest pet hates, especially on a busy roundabout. You're sat there for ages, you think you see a gap, but you think the car is going straight on, only to find that the prat turns left without any indication!!

 

I'm sure these people must cause accidents too. Not only do they not indicate when they're turning left, but they don't indicate when they're turning right, which is not only annoying, but dangerous!

 

How ignorant and idle do you have to be to not flick your fingers up and down 2/3 inches to let other drivers know what you are doing?!?

 

I would love to see them get heavy fines.

 

It's a pet hate of mine.

 

I always say to my Mrs that motorists in Sheffield must be weedy, because so many of them aren't strong enough to move their indicator switch up or down.....Is it really that difficult?

 

I think it's a lack of courtesy, people these days are so absorbed in themselves they forget about others around them. It's the same with walking on footpaths, whenever I'm out with Mrs Doom if there are people coming in the opposite direction I'll always drop behind her to go single file so that we can all get past on the path, but you'd be surprised how many times groups have not broken rank and one (or both) of us has had to step onto the road.

 

I'm afraid we live in the me me me era, where people give little thought for those around them.

 

Regards

 

Doom

[DT Ralge]

It's a pet hate of mine.

 

I always say to my Mrs that motorists in Sheffield must be weedy, because so many of them aren't strong enough to move their indicator switch up or down.....Is it really that difficult?

 

I think it's a lack of courtesy, people these days are so absorbed in themselves they forget about others around them. It's the same with walking on footpaths, whenever I'm out with Mrs Doom if there are people coming in the opposite direction I'll always drop behind her to go single file so that we can all get past on the path, but you'd be surprised how many times groups have not broken rank and one (or both) of us has had to step onto the road.

 

I'm afraid we live in the me me me era, where people give little thought for those around them.

 

Regards

 

Doom

 

I'm not sure Sheffield is worse than anywhere else.

My son at Uni in Birmingham suggests it's much worse there.

Maybe, bigger city, more rush, rush traffic, more me me me ... .?