tzijlstra Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Wow, cuttsie saying something that bears some relation to reality and that I agree with. I never thought i'd see the day. People 'hark back' (those 'moaning minnies' as Thatch called them) to the 1980s because this region was absolutely decimated by the loss of those big industries overnight. Virtually nothing has been put in their place aside from low paid, non-unionised, part-time service sector jobs that last for a few years at best and don't give the same sense of pride or community. Many areas of our region have never recovered from what happened 30 years ago. Like the other industrial cities of the UK, we built this country up, but we've been left high and dry as global business took all our industry away to slave labour economies. All the country has left is the 'financial sector' based in London and the South East, with a few crumbs thrown to the provinces. Take all the public sector jobs out of Sheffield (universities, NHS, local govt, national govt agencies) and there is very little left in terms of wealth. Wealth is the driver for the city centre and the rest of the region. Saying 'ooh we're very near the Peak District' in every debate is no good. you can't eat the view as they say. We need jobs. Everything else follows from that. We have jobs, every morning the inbound parkway is clogged up with thousands of employees coming in, we have a strong legal sector, engineering industry, software and internet sector, specialised steel products, a Universithy that is in the British and global top for research and one of the best ex-poly's in the country. Keep talking about the eighties if it makes you happier, I for one think Sheffield is doing great and can only get better if we tackle the city centre properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 We have jobs, every morning the inbound parkway is clogged up with thousands of employees coming in, we have a strong legal sector, engineering industry, software and internet sector, specialised steel products, a Universithy that is in the British and global top for research and one of the best ex-poly's in the country. Keep talking about the eighties if it makes you happier, I for one think Sheffield is doing great and can only get better if we tackle the city centre properly. No we dont have a strong legal sector or financial services. Sheffield is very much a backwater when it comes to those. The powerhouses for such things are Leeds and Manchester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilge Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I for one think Sheffield is doing great ... Well bully for you. Many thousands of people stumbling from one crappy low paid job the next, or who are unemployed will disagree. Yes we've got some industries and jobs, but nowhere near enough to support a region this size in a way that would give us a buzzing, shiny city centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bloke Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 We have jobs, every morning the inbound parkway is clogged up with thousands of employees coming in, we have a strong legal sector, engineering industry, software and internet sector, specialised steel products, a Universithy that is in the British and global top for research and one of the best ex-poly's in the country. Keep talking about the eighties if it makes you happier, I for one think Sheffield is doing great and can only get better if we tackle the city centre properly. Sheffield is only 'doing great' if you have a secure job. The people that were born here have seen the traditional jobs that their fathers and grandfathers had, and that they grew up believing was to be their career, disappear in a few short years. Some retrained. Some couldn't believe things would get so bad and so 'missed the boat'. Some just gave up. It's OK for people from outside Sheffield, attracted by some of the well paid jobs that do exist, to say Sheffield is 'doing great'. But Sheffield was built from the sweat of heavy industry workers. Those same skilled men and women of Sheffield whose skills are now no longer required by the new 'industries'. It happens all over of course. Traditional jobs are replaced by technology requiring fewer people to achieve the same results. That's progress. I guess a lot of the 'incomers' to Sheffield probably wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the fact that they were attracted by a decent job or a university place. That's fine. But please don't criticise Sheffielder's for talking about and wishing they were still in the 80's. For a lot of people it is indeed when they were happiest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Well bully for you. Many thousands of people stumbling from one crappy low paid job the next, or who are unemployed will disagree. Yes we've got some industries and jobs, but nowhere near enough to support a region this size in a way that would give us a buzzing, shiny city centre. I agree with most of what Bilge says. In the 70s Sheffield was much more prosperous because of heavy industy and coal mining. In the early 80s a big portion of that workforce was lost due to recession, changing times,technology, government policy, international economics etc. Those jobs were well paid. Sheffield has never been able to adequately replace those jobs in the same numbers. We still have a strongish heavy industry, but nowhere near as significant as it was. Poor local economy means less money for sheffielders to spend. The bright idea to go for sport was incredibly naive. What has saved the local economy has been the universities, but they still arent a replacment for what was lost and has still to be recovered. Its hard to see where the regeneration might happen as these days the biggest part of the economy is aimed at the financial service sector in the south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECCOnoob Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 No we dont have a strong legal sector or financial services. Sheffield is very much a backwater when it comes to those. The powerhouses for such things are Leeds and Manchester. Such pony you talk. The country's largest consumer law firm has its HQ here. One of the world's largest commercial law firm has a large presence here filling an entire new build in the peace gardens. The legal and regulation teams for the country's biggest telecoms company are based here as are one of the litigation divisions for the asylum and immigration directorate. HSBC has a massive presence here with both ops and their so called secret data centre within Sheffield boundaries. Nabarro, Slater Gordon, Hill Dickinson, Simpson Millar, PWC, Grant Thornton, Lloyd Banking Group all have offices here. Oh let's not forget the HSE, DWP and Home Office departments based here too. Do I need to go on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Such pony you talk. The country's largest consumer law firm has its HQ here. One of the world's largest commercial law firm has a large presence here filling an entire new build in the peace gardens. The legal and regulation teams for the the country's biggest telecoms company are based here as are one of the litigation divisions for the asylum and immigration directorate. HSBC has a massive presence here with both ops and their so called secret data centre within Sheffield boundaries. Nabarro, Slater Gordon, Hill Dickinson, Simpson Millar all have offices here. Oh let's not forget the HSE, DWP and Home Office departments based here too. Do I need to go on... Compared to Leeds the legal sector in Sheffield is much smaller. They have more firms, larger practices and more high profile market leaders. the regional powerhouses are Leeds, Manchester and Birmingham. The big ticket work will invariably go to London. The DLA Piper office in all its other locations is bigger including London, Leeds, Birmingham and Manchester. Except perhaps Liverpool . Its still the leading commercial law firm in the city, but it has never really had serious commercial competitors. HSBC isnt a law firm. You will find most of its major instructions go to London firms.Allen & Overy, Clifford Chance, Eversheds (national), Linklaters, Norton Rose. It has two major teams of its own lawyers 30 in London and 19 in Birmingham. For national work it has a panel of 13 law firms. Asylum and immigration arent top of the legal tree. Neither is crime. Commercial law is where the money is at. HSE, DWP and Home office are not law firms. They dont generate money in the smae way a private practice or business does. They wouldnt be included in the legal market. As i said the legal market in Sheffield is small compared to Leeds and Manchester because the financial services industry in Sheffield is also small compared to those other places. Look at the number of Legal recruitment agencies. Any neutral that wants to compare the issue of whether Leeds /Manchester has a much stronger legal market than Sheffield can look at the Legal 500 and see how for most areas the number of recommended firms its Leeds which has way more and is consistently rated above Sheffield. Corporate and commercial: Sheffield, South Yorkshire 1 DLA Piper UK LLP (Sheffield) 2 HLW Keeble Hawson (Sheffield) Hill Dickinson LLP (Sheffield) Irwin Mitchell (Sheffield) Nabarro LLP (Sheffield) 3 Bell & Buxton (Sheffield) Taylor & Emmet LLP (Sheffield) Wake Smith LLP (Sheffield) Corporate and commercial: Leeds, West Yorkshire, North Yorkshire 1 Addleshaw Goddard LLP (Leeds) DLA Piper UK LLP (Leeds) Eversheds LLP (Leeds) Pinsent Masons LLP (Leeds) Squire Sanders LLP (Leeds) Walker Morris LLP (Leeds) 2 DWF LLP (Leeds) Gordons LLP (Leeds, Bradford) 3 Bond Dickinson LLP (Leeds) Clarion (Leeds) Irwin Mitchell (Leeds) Lupton Fawcett Lee & Priestley (Leeds) Schofield Sweeney (Leeds, Bradford) Denison Till (York) Harrowells LLP (York) Langleys Solicitors LLP (York) Last Cawthra Feather LLP (Bradford, Shipley, Ilkley) 3volution LLP (Leeds) Blacks Solicitors LLP (Leeds) HLW Keeble Hawson (Leeds) Hempsons (Harrogate) Levi Solicitors LLP (Leeds) McCormicks (Harrogate) Ramsdens (Huddersfield) Raworths (Harrogate) Shulmans (Leeds) The Needle Partnership LLP (Leeds) Ward Hadaway (Leeds) Watson Burton LLP (Leeds) Corporate and commercial: Manchester 1 Addleshaw Goddard LLP DLA Piper UK LLP Eversheds LLP Pinsent Masons LLP 2 DWF LLP Gateley Squire Sanders LLP 3 Brabners LLP Hill Dickinson LLP Pannone LLP turner parkinson LLP Berg Legal DAC Beachcroft LLP JMW Solicitors LLP Kuit Steinart Levy LLP Millbank Edge LLP Mills & Reeve LLP Shoosmiths LLP Weightmans LLP Clarke Willmott LLP gunnercooke LLP Laytons Banking and finance 1 Addleshaw Goddard LLP (Leeds) DLA Piper UK LLP (Leeds, Sheffield) 2 Eversheds LLP (Leeds) Pinsent Masons LLP (Leeds) Squire Sanders LLP (Leeds) Walker Morris LLP (Leeds) 3 DWF LLP (Leeds) Gordons LLP (Leeds) Nabarro LLP (Sheffield) Clarion (Leeds) Irwin Mitchell (Leeds, Sheffield) Lupton Fawcett Lee & Priestley (Leeds) IT and telecoms 1 Addleshaw Goddard LLP (Leeds) DLA Piper UK LLP (Leeds, Sheffield) Walker Morris LLP (Leeds) 2 Clarion (Leeds) DAC Beachcroft LLP (Leeds) Eversheds LLP (Leeds) Irwin Mitchell (Leeds) Pinsent Masons LLP (Leeds) 3 3volution LLP (Leeds) Berwins Solicitors (Harrogate) Hill Dickinson LLP (Sheffield) Percy Crow Davis & Co (Leeds) Wake Smith LLP (Sheffield) IT and telecoms Manchester 1 Addleshaw Goddard LLP (Manchester) DLA Piper UK LLP (Manchester, Liverpool) 2 DWF LLP (Liverpool) Gateley (Manchester) Hill Dickinson LLP (Liverpool, Manchester) Pinsent Masons LLP (Manchester) Squire Sanders LLP (Manchester) Weightmans LLP (Liverpool) 3 Brabners LLP (Liverpool, Manchester) DAC Beachcroft LLP (Manchester) Eversheds LLP (Manchester) Pannone LLP (Manchester) Shoosmiths LLP (Manchester) http://www.legal500.com/c/yorkshire-and-the-humber/overview/regional-review The other surveys you cna look at are the lawyer uk200 and Chambers directory. 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tzijlstra Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Seriously, people that keep looking at the past and go: "Sigh, it was so much better" need to get with the times. You are the reason the city isn't moving on, it is all about perception. People keep comparing with Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham (as per above post) get real, it isn't a competition and if it was, why measure yourself with the biggest cities in this country? I pity the negativity from some people on here, harping on and on about the 60s and 70s like it was some sort of angelic era where there were no wrongs and everybody was rich and happy. Time to stop reminiscing and start fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
999tigger Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Seriously, people that keep looking at the past and go: "Sigh, it was so much better" need to get with the times. You are the reason the city isn't moving on, it is all about perception. People keep comparing with Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham (as per above post) get real, it isn't a competition and if it was, why measure yourself with the biggest cities in this country? I pity the negativity from some people on here, harping on and on about the 60s and 70s like it was some sort of angelic era where there were no wrongs and everybody was rich and happy. Time to stop reminiscing and start fixing. Actually im very much a forward thinking person. Its a fact that Sheffield has declined in relative terms in the last 40 years. Pretending the last 3 recessions didnt happen and there was great change to the local economy is ridiculous to ignore. My suggestion that the Sheffield legal market was much smaller as was our financial services sector compared to Leeds is absolutely true. Its one of the reasons why Sheffield fell behind because its main sources of income became much diminished. In terms of economics then Leeds does compete with Sheffield as well as other cities. If they are considering a Yorkshire headquarters then they have the advantage and most law firms opt for Leeds. The bigger financial market usually wins out because thats where the clients are. It matters to the city concerned because the jobs are high skill high disposable income. Its important to understand your economic history and how you got there, because its the first step to figuring a plan of how to improve things.To pretend it hasnt had a massive effect is naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Actually im very much a forward thinking person. Its a fact that Sheffield has declined in relative terms in the last 40 years. Pretending the last 3 recessions didnt happen and there was great change to the local economy is ridiculous to ignore. My suggestion that the Sheffield legal market was much smaller as was our financial services sector compared to Leeds is absolutely true. Its one of the reasons why Sheffield fell behind because its main sources of income became much diminished. In terms of economics then Leeds does compete with Sheffield as well as other cities. If they are considering a Yorkshire headquarters then they have the advantage and most law firms opt for Leeds. The bigger financial market usually wins out because thats where the clients are. It matters to the city concerned because the jobs are high skill high disposable income. Its important to understand your economic history and how you got there, because its the first step to figuring a plan of how to improve things.To pretend it hasnt had a massive effect is naive. No, to keep pointing at the negative effect is naive, it creates... a negative effect. How can you sell the city on its good points if you keep referring to the deterioration? We don't need to be Leeds, we don't need to be the best in legal or finance (I never mentioned finance btw, not sure why you keep bringing that up), we are the best in advanced manufacturing, we are incredibly strong in engineering, we have one of the most effective research-led universities in the country and therefore the world, one that is out-competing Cambridge I might add. The city retains enormous amounts of highly qualified individuals that started life here as a student and then decided they want to settle here. Sheffield has a lot to be positive about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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