How much is the government allowed to know?

[longleyman]

You have nothing to hide, so what happens if you are a journalist taking pictures of what potentially is police brutality at Sheffield station? He had nothing to hide, yet the policeman threatened to take his camera under anti-terror laws.

 

You have nothing to hide, but when you are in a group of people innocently having dinner in town, one of which happens to be a potential terrorist (without your knowledge) and the secret service uses that as a reason to arrest the whole group and detain you under anti-terror laws for a number of days?

 

What if you are of Pakistani descend and you've been to visit Pakistan for a wedding where there were also elements of Al-Qaeda, again, without your knowledge, and you come home and are immediately arrested at the airport?

 

What about a black friend I have (again, nothing to hide) who has been stopped and searched (again under terror laws) an astonishing 14 times whilst walking to work, in Sheffield, in one month last year?

 

How do we draw a line?

 

If you are quoting examples, what about me being pounced on and searched twice in London? Outside London I have been stopped seven times and I am white. BTW. The intelligence services should be given all tools possible to help to ensure the safety of this country's citizens.

[Chelle-82]

It's not about ministers, it's about government employee's.

You fall out with your neighbour, they're brother in law works for the council, they gain access to lots of private information you wouldn't want them to have.

No, they wouldn't. That's kind of the point of the "emergency legislation".

If it were overseen by the courts then there would be a balance, but the entire point of this discussion is nationwide distribution with no oversight or checks and balances.

 

And so you want to make it easier for more misuse to occur? I don't understand this logic.

 

---------- Post added 11-07-2014 at 13:12 ----------

 

 

If you believe we're only talking about publicly broadcast information on social media then you've completely failed to grasp the topic.

 

No I get the topic but thank you for surmising

[mjw47]

If you are quoting examples, what about me being pounced on and searched twice in London? Outside London I have been stopped seven times and I am white. BTW. The intelligence services should be given all tools possible to help to ensure the safety of this country's citizens.

 

'Those who would give up essential freedom to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.'

 

Benjamin Franklin.

 

To hand over control of your life and privacy to unelected, unaccountable,unknown authority is the action of a subjugated person who does not deserve the sacrifices of the men and women who gave their lives to obtain that freedom originally.

[longleyman]

'Those who would give up essential freedom to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.'

 

Benjamin Franklin.

 

To hand over control of your life and privacy to unelected, unaccountable,unknown authority is the action of a subjugated person who does not deserve the sacrifices of the men and women who gave their lives to obtain that freedom originally.

 

Times have changed since Benjamin Franklin. He didn't know about dirty bombs. Forewarned is to be forearmed. It is about time that dreamers faced reality. I lived in a time when I listened on radio to the voice of that traitor Lord Haw Haw.

[tzijlstra]

Times have changed since Benjamin Franklin. He didn't know about dirty bombs. Forewarned is to be forearmed. It is about time that dreamers faced reality. I lived in a time when I listened on radio to the voice of that traitor Lord Haw Haw.

 

The closest Sheffield has been affected by a Muslim terrorist act was with the brilliant movie Four Lions.

 

I don't know anybody who has been hit by a terrorist action, except for my brother who happened to be in Manchester when the IRA blew up the M&S, but I do know lots of people who have been affected by the measures that are increasing on a yearly basis to counter the "threat". There is no threat, there is a ploy.

 

I don't have a problem with providing the intelligence services with REASONABLE tools to detect and prevent, but only on the provision that they are checked by democratic means. At the moment they aren't even close to that and it is getting worse.

 

I fear it is you that is dreaming longleyman, dreaming of all the nasties out there to kill you, when in fact, there aren't any.

[longleyman]

The closest Sheffield has been affected by a Muslim terrorist act was with the brilliant movie Four Lions.

 

I don't know anybody who has been hit by a terrorist action, except for my brother who happened to be in Manchester when the IRA blew up the M&S, but I do know lots of people who have been affected by the measures that are increasing on a yearly basis to counter the "threat". There is no threat, there is a ploy.

 

I don't have a problem with providing the intelligence services with REASONABLE tools to detect and prevent, but only on the provision that they are checked by democratic means. At the moment they aren't even close to that and it is getting worse.

 

I fear it is you that is dreaming longleyman, dreaming of all the nasties out there to kill you, when in fact, there aren't any.

 

What about the British Muslims who are in Syria threatening us on their return? What about British Muslims who have been caught and found planning attacks. Am I dreaming? I am not afraid of any " nasties" as I am too old, but I fear for the future of your children and grandchildren. You say there is no threat and I therefore ask if you have a crystal ball and if I can borrow it? BTW. I am going out to the supermarket now but when I return I will do some research. I am hoping to discuss further, and anytime I am wrong I will admit it. I've nothing to lose. I will be humble.

[mjw47]

Longleyman, You have me intrigued, you say that you have been stopped and questioned nine times by the police?

 

You also say that you are in a similar age bracket to me. How in Gods name did you manage to get stopped that number of times?

 

I worked in a job that entailed me traveling throughout Britain. On many occasions I stayed overnight in cities throughout the country from Edinburgh to Plymouth and most of them in between.

 

On many occasions I would go out for a drink with one or two local colleagues and never in my life have I been stopped and questioned in the street by the police.

 

The only time that I've had any 'bother' with the police is at away football matches where they have a tendency to treat all away fans as scum.

 

And as for Benjamin Franklin's times, he lived during a period when his country was fighting a war against the largest Empire the world has known, he understood liberty and how difficult it was to gain and how easy it is to lose.

[SamJ89]

If you are quoting examples, what about me being pounced on and searched twice in London? Outside London I have been stopped seven times and I am white. BTW. The intelligence services should be given all tools possible to help to ensure the safety of this country's citizens.

 

Been pounced on by the Met for no good reason is normal. I'm from London and aside from living costs the main reason for me and my boyfriend moving to the north is blatant racist harassment, the Met are just racist corrupt bullies.

 

Giving the Police more powers is ludicrous, this is why they're getting away with more and more racial harassment and corruption.

[longleyman]

Longleyman, You have me intrigued, you say that you have been stopped and questioned nine times by the police?

 

You also say that you are in a similar age bracket to me. How in Gods name did you manage to get stopped that number of times?

 

I worked in a job that entailed me traveling throughout Britain. On many occasions I stayed overnight in cities throughout the country from Edinburgh to Plymouth and most of them in between.

 

On many occasions I would go out for a drink with one or two local colleagues and never in my life have I been stopped and questioned in the street by the police.

 

The only time that I've had any 'bother' with the police is at away football matches where they have a tendency to treat all away fans as scum.

 

And as for Benjamin Franklin's times, he lived during a period when his country was fighting a war against the largest Empire the world has known, he understood liberty and how difficult it was to gain and how easy it is to lose.

 

As you are intrigued I will try to give you details and you could comment. On two occasions I was walking along Fleet St,and carrying a bag because I was on leave from the Army. I was dressed in civilian clothes but after hearing a screech of brakes I was pounced upon by two young men wearing jeans.I was shown identification and my bag was searched and my person was searched. Nothing suspicious was found and I was given apologies. This was late at night. I was walking from a girl's house in Folkestone late at night and I was stopped by a policeman. When I explained my circumstances he laughed and called me a "dirty bugger". After that experience I no longer slept in my barrack room bed but used the hospitality of a married woman. Another time I was sat in the back seat of a car with a girl and we were in a certain position and caught by a policeman shining his torch into the car. We were questioned because my car was situated in the grounds of a Girl's Remand Home. I can say that the girl expressed her embarrassment. Then there was the time when I was stopped from enjoying myself with a girl friend at Pond St, bus station. I was, also, stopped in my car on the Woodhead by police. No reason was given. I was stopped in my car before a Christmas on Southey. No reason was given. I was pulled up for not wearing a seatbelt on Shirecliffe. I was questioned at the side of the reservoir at Langsett. I think there were some threats from the IRA at that time regarding the poisoning of reservoirs. I think my accent was being checked. I'm sorry for the long waffle. I think there were some more stoppages which I can't remember at the moment. Just an aside, I can now remember being stopped by Security as I was leaving HMV Meadowhall. My purchases were checked. I was, also, pulled up walking by the side of a building at Meadowhall and asked "Can I help you". So you see that we are already being watched. The trouble is that I appear to be a dodgy character.

[mjw47]

Longleyman, thanks for clearing that up. The Folkestone police officer appears to have been an excellent judge of character.

 

I was beginning to imagine an image of you with a shaven head, deaths head tattoos on your arms and 'You looking at me?'tattoo'd across your forehead!

 

My job also entailed me working with the police on a daily/weekly basis for over 28 years.

This resulted in two things firstly I count a number of coppers as friends and secondly I don't trust the police.

 

When you've been told of some of the crap that goes on by police officers themselves you realize that as an organization they are not to be trusted and require constant supervision by disinterested parties.

 

A friend of mine who is an ex police officer who served 30 years in the force told me that in his opinion the Met is institutionally corrupt, and that he has sympathy for any new recruits as they will either be sucked in or have to leave.

 

The authorities cannot be trusted and should be denied too much power over normal citizens lives.