onewheeldave Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think Coca Cola gets pretty demonised, even if it is a drink not a food. As you say, it is a drink, not a food. Personally I don't drink it, not cos of the sugar: if I were to drink it I would definitely choose the sugared version over the aspertimine/artificial sweeteners options. But the reasons I don't drink it are- 1 stimulant content (caffeine) 2 the fact that it is designed to promote addiction and over consumption 3 the low morals of the company producing it 4 the fact that if I want a tasty, sugary drink, I'll buy, or make my own, pure fruit smoothie or juice as you say, it's not a food, but a drink- anyone thought of a high sugar snack that doesn't contain fat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 FYI... The overall mortality risk associated with being lean is higher than that associated with being slightly less lean (not fat, but not Hugh Jackman ripped either). http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2010/12/01/the-best-body-mass-indexes-for-low-mortality-rates/ For healthy white adults who don’t smoke, those with a BMI (based on height and weight but not body composition) between 20 and 24.9 had the lowest risk of death after a median follow up period of 10 years, ---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 12:52 ---------- As you say, it is a drink, not a food. Personally I don't drink it, not cos of the sugar: if I were to drink it I would definitely choose the sugared version over the aspertimine/artificial sweeteners options. But the reasons I don't drink it are- 1 stimulant content (caffeine) 2 the fact that it is designed to promote addiction and over consumption 3 the low morals of the company producing it 4 the fact that if I want a tasty, sugary drink, I'll buy, or make my own, pure fruit smoothie or juice as you say, it's not a food, but a drink- anyone thought of a high sugar snack that doesn't contain fat? Skittles. Starburst fruit chews. Most other 'sweets' of this nature (ie not chocolate/cake/flapjack based). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Skittles. Starburst fruit chews. Most other 'sweets' of this nature (ie not chocolate/cake/flapjack based). Skittles: INGREDIENTS:Sugar, Corn Syrup, Hydrogenated Palm Kernel Oil; less than 2% of: Citric Acid, Tapioca Dextrin, Modified Corn Starch, Natural and Artificial Flavors, Colors (Red 40 Lake, Titanium Dioxide, Blue 2 Lake, Red 40, Blue 1, Blue 1 Lake, Yellow 5 Lake, Yellow 5, Yellow 6, Yellow 6 Lake), Sodium Citrate, Carnauba ... 3rd ingredient is oil. Hydrogenated at that Should have made clear in the question, when speaking of fat, I of course included oil, assuming that people would realise that fats and oils are the same (i.e. sub-classed of lipids, fats being solid at room temperature, oils being liquid). On reflection, given the low state of nutritional awareness amongst the general population, I want to clarify that now. So, we're looking for high sugar snacks that don't contain fats/oils/lipids. There's not many, and, if they're squidjy, they're not pure sugar- that's a clue ---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 14:37 ---------- FYI... The overall mortality risk associated with being lean is higher than that associated with being slightly less lean (not fat, but not Hugh Jackman ripped either). http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2010/12/01/the-best-body-mass-indexes-for-low-mortality-rates/ Yes- I believe more than one scientific study has shown higher mortality rates for lean people. I'm not worried, as 1. if you're ex-fat and got too lean, it's easy to become less lean by simply eating small amounts of the stuff that made you previously fat 2. I don't these days put much stock in scientific studies, having seen so many with bad methodology in the past. 3. as your link says- "As the report authors note, underweight individuals (those with BMIs 18.4 and under) are a tricky bunch to assess and might still be skewing some of the results. Some might be slim due to undiagnosed illness that could increase their risk of an early death, and others might be leading a healthy, active lifestyle that could help them live longer. And the longer the follow-up period, the lower the mortality rate for people with lower BMIs, the researchers found. (Because the new study was a meta analysis of previously collected data, the researchers were not able to track the impact of weight loss or lifestyle changes on mortality risk.)" additionally, many of the lean people might be so due to unhealthy calorie restricted diets taken too far, or borderline anorexic etc. Modern fruitarians hammer in the carbs, eating vast quantities of fruit to ensure they get the necessary vitamins, minerals and essential fatty acids etc- a lot of calories restriction based diets don't adequately cover those requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barleycorn Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Skittles: INGREDIENTS:Sugar, Corn Syrup, Hydrogenated Palm Kernel Oil; less than 2% of: Citric Acid, Tapioca Dextrin, Modified Corn Starch, Natural and Artificial Flavors, Colors (Red 40 Lake, Titanium Dioxide, Blue 2 Lake, Red 40, Blue 1, Blue 1 Lake, Yellow 5 Lake, Yellow 5, Yellow 6, Yellow 6 Lake), Sodium Citrate, Carnauba ... 3rd ingredient is oil. Hydrogenated at that Sherbet, liquorice... also, most fruits contain fat. For example, on a dry basis bananas contain almost 1% fat. jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Skittles: INGREDIENTS:Sugar, Corn Syrup, Hydrogenated Palm Kernel Oil; less than 2% of: Citric Acid, Tapioca Dextrin, Modified Corn Starch, Natural and Artificial Flavors, Colors (Red 40 Lake, Titanium Dioxide, Blue 2 Lake, Red 40, Blue 1, Blue 1 Lake, Yellow 5 Lake, Yellow 5, Yellow 6, Yellow 6 Lake), Sodium Citrate, Carnauba ... 3rd ingredient is oil. Hydrogenated at that Which might mean it's 1% of the ingredients. Of the 250 calories, 180 come from sugar. Should have made clear in the question, when speaking of fat, I of course included oil, assuming that people would realise that fats and oils are the same (i.e. sub-classed of lipids, fats being solid at room temperature, oils being liquid). Yes, I don't think anyone misunderstood. On reflection, given the low state of nutritional awareness amongst the general population, I want to clarify that now. So, we're looking for high sugar snacks that don't contain fats/oils/lipids. That are primarily sugar. The presence of a small amount of fat is not the key thing, you were claiming that it's present in quantity in most snacks. Yes- I believe more than one scientific study has shown higher mortality rates for lean people. I'm not worried, as 1. if you're ex-fat and got too lean, it's easy to become less lean by simply eating small amounts of the stuff that made you previously fat 2. I don't these days put much stock in scientific studies, having seen so many with bad methodology in the past. You prefer to rely on anecdotes from youtube... 3. as your link says- "As the report authors note, underweight individuals (those with BMIs 18.4 and under) are a tricky bunch to assess and might still be skewing some of the results. Some might be slim due to undiagnosed illness that could increase their risk of an early death, and others might be leading a healthy, active lifestyle that could help them live longer. And the longer the follow-up period, the lower the mortality rate for people with lower BMIs, the researchers found. (Because the new study was a meta analysis of previously collected data, the researchers were not able to track the impact of weight loss or lifestyle changes on mortality risk.)" additionally, many of the lean people might be so due to unhealthy calorie restricted diets taken too far, or borderline anorexic etc. Modern fruitarians hammer in the carbs, eating vast quantities of fruit to ensure they get the necessary vitamins, minerals and essential fatty acids etc- a lot of calories restriction based diets don't adequately cover those requirements. There are dietary requirements not met by the fruitarian diet as well http://www.healthambition.com/a-fruitarian-diet/ This seems like quite a balanced article to me btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Sherbet, liquorice... also, most fruits contain fat. For example, on a dry basis bananas contain almost 1% fat. jb Yes, sherbert, liquorice (though liquorice contains gelatin (from wiki)Gelatin is a mixture of peptides and proteins produced by partial hydrolysis of collagen extracted from the skin, bones, and connective tissues of animals such as domesticated cattle, chicken, pigs, and fish. During hydrolysis, the natural molecular bonds between individual collagen strands are broken down into a form that rearranges more easily. Its chemical composition is, in many respects, closely similar to that of its parent collagen. others are foxs glacier mints, many hard mints and boiled sweets. So, mainly one off sweets that are not consumed in anything like the amounts that the high sugar/high fat mainstream 'treats' like all chocolate, shortbreads, most sweets excepting the ones above. So, any scientific analysis of population eating habits concerning foods high in sugar, would inevitably be measuring effects from foods containing both sugar and fat. Thus only being able to conclude what effects eating sugar combined with fat produce, rather than the effects of foods high in sugar alone. ---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 16:19 ---------- Which might mean it's 1% of the ingredients. Of the 250 calories, 180 come from sugar. It's not 1% dude. You know it, I know it. ---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 16:23 ---------- You prefer to rely on anecdotes from youtube... If those 'anecdotes' are a collection of videos showing the physique and health of individuals following a high carb low fat/fruitarian/80-10-10 diet over several years, then yes, I do prefer them. e.g. Did you watch the first minute of that vid? If so, any comments? If no, can I ask why? ---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 16:31 ---------- There are dietary requirements not met by the fruitarian diet as well http://www.healthambition.com/a-fruitarian-diet/ This seems like quite a balanced article to me btw. The writer of that article clearly has no experience of the type of fruitarianism I'm talking about. i.e. not just eating a bit of fruit. 80-10-10 is about banging in huge amounts of fruit daily- without that, you're not going to get the calories, or the nutrients needed to succeed. Neither do we eat much in the way of nuts, as they are high in fat- and this is a low fat lifestyle. Maybe have one or two handfulls of nuts/week. As for studies showing high levels of fructose to be bad- every single one used high fructose corn syrup, which no fruitarian would put anywhere near their mouth. You cannot feed people high fructose corn syrup in a study, and draw any conclusions about people eating large amount of fructose in the form of natural unprocessed fruit. Finally, if the article is right about the negative health effects of eating fruit and that it "can lead to many problems such as insulin resistance, diabetes, obesity. fatty liver disease, high blood pressure and more" along with serious vitamin deficiencies:- how come many long term fruitarians, including Freelee who's been on this for 7.5 years, are ultra lean, ultra healthy, ultra bouyant and energetic, and, have regular blood test results that are perfect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 That's what anecdote means. A collection of unverified data, with no balance or control, no design to the measurements and no attempt to isolate or understand the confounding factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 That's what anecdote means. A collection of unverified data, with no balance or control, no design to the measurements and no attempt to isolate or understand the confounding factors. I know what 'anecdote' means Still: If those 'anecdotes' are a collection of videos showing the physique and health of individuals following a high carb low fat/fruitarian/80-10-10 diet over several years, then yes, I do prefer them. e.g. like I said, I've given up wasting my time on what passes for 'scientific studies'. When they eject the pharmacutical industry influences, sort out the methodology and start producing something relevant and usefull, maybe I'll start paying attention again. ---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 17:47 ---------- Did you watch the first minute of that vid? If so, any comments? If no, can I ask why? Are you planning to continue ignoring this? Cos I ain't going to stop posting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I know what 'anecdote' means Still: like I said, I've given up wasting my time on what passes for 'scientific studies'. When they eject the pharmacutical industry influences, sort out the methodology and start producing something relevant and usefull, maybe I'll start paying attention again. ---------- Post added 16-07-2014 at 17:47 ---------- Are you planning to continue ignoring this? Cos I ain't going to stop posting it. You must spend a large amount of time either eating fruit, buying fruit or on the bog. That doesn't sound like fun. Besides there are literally millions of people who are fit and healthy who just eat a normal diet. Some are sportsmen and women - they seem to be doing ok. Any famous fruitarians - Olympic medalists etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Se7enhills Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Ther is probably quite a few sports persons eat fruit...as long as fish etc are fruits de mare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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