Treatment for Obesity on NHS

[onewheeldave]

To anyone actually interested in these kind of fruit based imterventions, either cos they're obese/overweight/ill, or, cos they have friends who are.

 

I've pretty much posted all I can on this, so reading thru my previous posts you'll find the arguments for, and links to info, the ways of eating.

 

Obviously, some here oppose it vehemently

 

I'd suggest looking at their posts and assessing for yourself whether they have much actual content in terms of rational argument and info compared to mine.

 

Mainly though, watch the video when it's free this weekend. Also, watch 'Fat, sick and nearly dead' a similar documentation of obese ill individuals finding a way out of their misery via a fruit based intervention. This one though, is free at all times and easily findable on youtube.

 

We're all grown up enough to watch such documentaries and make up our own minds.

 

Some here make up their minds without watching the videos

 

Some here also seem to have a real contempt for those unfortunate to find themselves obese and ill- aparently they think it's purely cos the obese stuff themselves relentlessly with food and refuse to exercise any control

 

I know different, it's way more complex than that. But, there are ways out of it, ways that most obese/chronically ill people do not know of.

 

Some of that info is clearly explained in the 2 videos mentioned here. All there is to lose is 30 minutes of your time. The potential gains are inestimable.

 

---------- Post added 24-07-2014 at 17:18 ----------

 

Here's 'Fat, Sick and nearly dead'-

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mS0YA465ts

 

Free to watch- make up your own minds.

[Cyclone]

Advertisements, not documentaries.

[onewheeldave]

Advertisements, not documentaries.

 

No- documentaries: they clearly, to anyone who actually watches them (you possibly wouldn't realise this, not having watched them yourself) document obese/chronically ill individuals becoming well and losing lots of weight, via short term fruit/juice diet.

 

But that's my opinion, yours (albeit formed without actually watching the vids you condemn) is clearly different.

 

However, like I suggested to any people with weight/health issues 2 posts back-

 

 

Free to watch- make up your own minds.

 

Presumably you have no issue with people watching the vids and making up their own minds?

 

Or do you....?

[Obelix]

There's no control group dude, it's not a scientific study

 

Which tells you all you need to know - without proper controls it's useless as an experiment and you certianly shouldn't be basing decisions about your health on it.

[barleycorn]

There's no control group dude, it's not a scientific study

 

The group of obese and/or chronically ill individuals were on a diet of fresh raw fruit/veg juices for one month.

So basically all it shows is that if you isolate a load of obese people on an island and feed them nothing but fruit that they'll lose weight. One can only assume the reason they didn't include a control group subsisting solely on a calorie controlled balanced diet of fruit, veg, fish and meat etc is that the exact same results would be achieved.

In other words, it's a propaganda video. For someone proclaiming to be a rational thinker you should really be realising this.

 

jb

[onewheeldave]

Which tells you all you need to know - without proper controls it's useless as an experiment and you certianly shouldn't be basing decisions about your health on it.

 

First of all, note the honest, straightforward response-

 

 

There's no control group dude, it's not a scientific study

 

 

Concise and straight to the point. Unlike much of the info from 'proper scientific studies', which is demonstrably often influenced by various food industry corporations and politics.

 

And, I've also been very straightforward in explaining that I do not myself rate much of the info from those studies, and have gone into detail as to why.

 

I came to a rational conclusion that the scientific study process was itself flawed, due to bad methodology and interference by vested interests.

 

So basically all it shows is that if you isolate a load of obese people on an island and feed them nothing but fruit that they'll lose weight. One can only assume the reason they didn't include a control group subsisting solely on a calorie controlled balanced diet of fruit, veg, fish and meat etc is that the exact same results would be achieved.

In other words, it's a propaganda video. For someone proclaiming to be a rational thinker you should really be realising this.

 

jb

 

Yes, there was no control group.

 

Now, given that I don't care, for the reasons given above, let's address this-

 

Which tells you all you need to know - without proper controlsit's useless as an experiment and you certianly shouldn't be basing decisions about your health on it.

 

Does this mean that, when I go on a diet consisting of primarily (not entirely) of unprocessed fruits/veg and easily lose 2 stone, with no hunger or feelings of deprivation, and, my health improves and my energy levels become more consistent than they have ever been; that I should take no conclusions from it, as it's not a scientific study?

 

Does it mean that when multiple people post youtube vids documenting their amazing results from following similar low fat, high carb, unprocessed fruit based lifestyles, that I shouldn't conclude anything from that either?

 

Do you think I should go back to the way of eating I was on before- the one that had me 2 stone overweight and ill, and stick to it until the scientific studies catch up?

[Obelix]

Does this mean that, when I go on a diet consisting of primarily (not entirely) of unprocessed fruits/veg and easily lose 2 stone, with no hunger or feelings of deprivation, and, my health improves and my energy levels become more consistent than they have ever been; that I should take no conclusions from it, as it's not a scientific study?

 

You are making a strawman here - that's not what was under discussion

 

You shouldn't take the conclusion that it will have the same effect in everybody because the cohort size is too small, there is no double blind study, and there is no control group.

[barleycorn]

First of all, note the honest, straightforward response-

 

 

 

 

Concise and straight to the point. Unlike much of the info from 'proper scientific studies', which is demonstrably often influenced by various food industry corporations and politics.

 

And, I've also been very straightforward in explaining that I do not myself rate much of the info from those studies, and have gone into detail as to why.

 

I came to a rational conclusion that the scientific study process was itself flawed, due to bad methodology and interference by vested interests.

 

 

 

Yes, there was no control group.

 

Now, given that I don't care, for the reasons given above, let's address this-

 

 

 

Does this mean that, when I go on a diet consisting of primarily (not entirely) of unprocessed fruits/veg and easily lose 2 stone, with no hunger or feelings of deprivation, and, my health improves and my energy levels become more consistent than they have ever been; that I should take no conclusions from it, as it's not a scientific study?

 

Does it mean that when multiple people post youtube vids documenting their amazing results from following similar low fat, high carb, unprocessed fruit based lifestyles, that I shouldn't conclude anything from that either?

 

Do you think I should go back to the way of eating I was on before- the one that had me 2 stone overweight and ill, and stick to it until the scientific studies catch up?

No one is suggesting that you can't lose weight on the fruitarian diet. What they object to is the way in which you are promoting it... there is no balance in your posts. In your evangelical zeal to promote your diet you fail to mention that the exact same results can be achieved by eating a well balanced healthy diet, something you clearly weren't doing in the past.

 

jb

 

Oh, and for the record, you don't come across anywhere near as rational as you claim to be so I would leave off repeatedly repeating how rational you are until you actually become, well, rational.

[onewheeldave]

You are making a strawman here - that's not what was under discussion

It's very much what's under discussion here- just check out the last few pages of posts.

 

---------- Post added 25-07-2014 at 12:35 ----------

 

 

You shouldn't take the conclusion that it will have the same effect in everybody because the cohort size is too small, there is no double blind study, and there is no control group.

 

I haven't.

 

My main suggestions are that those interested watch the videos and come to their own conclusions, and/or try the diet and see what happens for themselves.

 

---------- Post added 25-07-2014 at 12:37 ----------

 

No one is suggesting that you can't lose weight on the fruitarian diet. What they object to is the way in which you are promoting it... there is no balance in your posts. In your evangelical zeal to promote your diet you fail to mention that the exact same results can be achieved by eating a well balanced healthy diet, something you clearly weren't doing in the past.

 

jb

 

Oh, and for the record, you don't come across anywhere near as rational as you claim to be so I would leave off repeatedly repeating how rational you are until you actually become, well, rational.

 

Again, if you want me to comment/discussed 'balanced' diets, you'll really have to define what you mean by 'balanced'. Otherwise it's a fairly meaningless term.

[Bonzo77]

I've just Googled the all fruit diet. First page brought up 2 well known people. Ashton Kutcher and Steve Jobs. Ashton Kutcher reecently played Steve Jobs in a film. As part of his preparations, he went on an all fruit diet because Steve Jobs was a fruitarian for several years (which is why the company is called Apple). Ashton Kutcher was rushed to hospital because of the diet and what it did to his Pancreas levels......Steve Jobs died of Pancreas Cancer.

 

Enough said.