Treatment for Obesity on NHS

[onewheeldave]

 

So even though mortality can be cut by up to 40% by a surgical intervention, you still think that surgical intervention should be avoided?

Yes, absolutely.

I sort of agree with you that it's bizarre that we have to resort to surgery to resolve what may well be a social/psychological problem, but turning around our society will take generations, and what do we do with the people that are taking 20 odd years of their lives in the meantime?

It doesn't need to take generations- all the info concerning plant based diets that cure obesity, heart disease and most of the other chronic health conditions currently plaguing us, is now here. Sadly, the medical profession is now so utterly focused on symptom management via drugs and surgery, that it is not doing what a health service should do, and getting that info out as a matter of dire urgency.

[JFKvsNixon]

Yes, absolutely.

It doesn't need to take generations- all the info concerning plant based diets that cure obesity, heart disease and most of the other chronic health conditions currently plaguing us, is now here. Sadly, the medical profession is now so utterly focused on symptom management via drugs and surgery, that it is not doing what a health service should do, and getting that info out as a matter of dire urgency.

 

So is you what you're proposing is some sort of force feeding healthy food program?

 

If not you miss the point by a country mile.

 

What the NHS is trying to do is get people healthy again after their lifestyle choices put their health at risk, be it obesity, smoking related diseases or other illnesses. Unless your suggesting forcibly restricting those lifestyle choices then we what are talking about?

 

It's taken generations to cut the levels of smoking down from what they were, and the effort has come from all levels of society, even though everybody knew of the health risks of smoking, it'll take the same time and effort to tackle obesity. After all, who really doesn't know the consequences of eating unhealthy food?

[onewheeldave]

So is you what you're proposing is some sort of force feeding healthy food program?

No.

 

 

What the NHS is trying to do is get people healthy again after their lifestyle choices put their health at risk, be it obesity, smoking related diseases or other illnesses. Unless your suggesting forcibly restricting those lifestyle choices then we what are talking about?

 

It's taken generations to cut the levels of smoking down from what they were, and the effort has come from all levels of society, even though everybody knew of the health risks of smoking, it'll take the same time and effort to tackle obesity. After all, who really doesn't know the consequences of eating unhealthy food?

Very few people know the real consequences of eating the processed filth sold in supermarkets and passed off as 'food'.

 

Luckily, some do, and are living by example and showing the results of consuming diets consisting of consuming primarily plant based real foods by putting out videos on youtube etc.

 

Some of them are doctors and fully qualifed medical professionals who are fighting against their own profession. The medical services are totally not on board in this, and, due to ignorance (if we're being charitable- there's a hell of a lot of money at stake if the majority of the population cease buying the filth passed off as 'food' by the food industry), are actively blocking it.

 

Just as with smoking, which did take generations due to industry lies, corruption and huge financial investment in keeping the truth hidden.

 

Hopefully, having learnt something from that (that politicians and healthcare professionals can be easily bought) people will be more inclined to bypass the 'experts' when it comes to finding the truth about food.

 

I'll happily point anyone interested in the right directions, especially the real victims in all this- the hopless and despairing obese who feel they've tried everything and still can't shift the weight.

[JFKvsNixon]

No.

 

Very few people know the real consequences of eating the processed filth sold in supermarkets and passed off as 'food'.

 

Luckily, some do, and are living by example and showing the results of consuming diets consisting of consuming primarily plant based real foods by putting out videos on youtube etc.

 

Some of them are doctors and fully qualifed medical professionals who are fighting against their own profession. The medical services are totally not on board in this, and, due to ignorance (if we're being charitable- there's a hell of a lot of money at stake if the majority of the population cease buying the filth passed off as 'food' by the food industry), are actively blocking it.

 

Just as with smoking, which did take generations due to industry lies, corruption and huge financial investment in keeping the truth hidden.

 

Hopefully, having learnt something from that (that politicians and healthcare professionals can be easily bought) people will be more inclined to bypass the 'experts' when it comes to finding the truth about food.

 

I'll happily point anyone interested in the right directions, especially the real victims in all this- the hopless and despairing obese who feel they've tried everything and still can't shift the weight.

 

I'm sorry but it is really patronising to suggest that people are obese because they do not know the difference between unhealthy food and healthy food, and informing people the healthy food that they should be eating would somehow solve the problem is fanciful.

 

The truth is that the problem goes a lot deeper within society on a sociological and a psychological level.

 

It's also offensive and just ignorant to suggest that healthcare professionals can be easily bought, and to suggest that this is part of the problem jus just being daft.

[onewheeldave]

I'm sorry but it is really patronising to suggest that people are obese because they do not know the difference between unhealthy food and healthy food, and informing people the healthy food that they should be eating would somehow solve the problem is fanciful.

 

The truth is that the problem goes a lot deeper within society on a sociological and a psychological level.

 

It's also offensive and just ignorant to suggest that healthcare professionals can be easily bought, and to suggest that this is part of the problem jus just being daft.

 

You're entitled to your opinions- I disagree with them.

 

The information necessary to over come obesity is out there.

 

We have the 'plant strong' movement in America- reversing heart disease and chronic inflammatory illnesses with diet, 80-10-10 and fruit based diets converting fat, ill people into optimally lean and healthy ones, Dr Mcdougals cooked starched based diet (rice/pasta/potatoes/corn etc), again, producing fantastic results.

 

There's the 'superjuiceme' documentary showing 8 obese and/or chronically ill people able to throw away most of their prescription drugs after one month on a fruit juice diet.

 

Easily available for free on youtube is the documentary 'fat, sick and nearly dead'- 2 obese and chronically ill men on a 6 month juice diet that cures them of both conditions.

 

Meanwhile, millions of chronically ill and/or obese people follow nutritional and health advice from the medical system and remain ill/obese, taking pharmacutical drugs, probably for the rest of their lives, that do nothing to tackle the actual illness, other than to manage symptoms.

 

What all those above diets have in common, is that they are plant based, abhor the use of highly-processed 'foods', and, are naturally extremely low in fats.

 

They actively dissasociate themselves, in the main, from vegetarianism and veganism (and if they are vegan diets, stress the low fat vegan aspect), because they know full well that there are a lot of fat and ill vegetarians and vegans out there.

 

Most importantly, they produce results, and document them.

 

If the medical establishment had the will, they could run proper scientific studies on those diets- for whatever reason, they don't.

[Bonzo77]

You seem to have all the answers, yet theirs still millions of people struggling with their weight.

 

Stopping smoking is simple, you just don't smoke again, yet millions of people find it almost impossible to give up.

 

It's not as black and white as you're making out.

 

---------- Post added 14-07-2014 at 18:00 ----------

 

You're entitled to your opinions- I disagree with them.

 

The information necessary to over come obesity is out there.

 

We have the 'plant strong' movement in America- reversing heart disease and chronic inflammatory illnesses with diet, 80-10-10 and fruit based diets converting fat, ill people into optimally lean and healthy ones, Dr Mcdougals cooked starched based diet (rice/pasta/potatoes/corn etc), again, producing fantastic results.

 

There's the 'superjuiceme' documentary showing 8 obese and/or chronically ill people able to throw away most of their prescription drugs after one month on a fruit juice diet.

 

Easily available for free on youtube is the documentary 'fat, sick and nearly dead'- 2 obese and chronically ill men on a 6 month juice diet that cures them of both conditions.

 

Meanwhile, millions of chronically ill and/or obese people follow nutritional and health advice from the medical system and remain ill/obese, taking pharmacutical drugs, probably for the rest of their lives, that do nothing to tackle the actual illness, other than to manage symptoms.

 

What all those above diets have in common, is that they are plant based, abhor the use of highly-processed 'foods', and, are naturally extremely low in fats.

 

They actively dissasociate themselves, in the main, from vegetarianism and veganism (and if they are vegan diets, stress the low fat vegan aspect), because they know full well that there are a lot of fat and ill vegetarians and vegans out there.

 

Most importantly, they produce results, and document them.

 

If the medical establishment had the will, they could run proper scientific studies on those diets- for whatever reason, they don't.

 

Sorry, but how can a 6 month juice diet cure obesity? That's not a sustainable diet.

[JFKvsNixon]

You're entitled to your opinions- I disagree with them.

 

The information necessary to over come obesity is out there.

 

We have the 'plant strong' movement in America- reversing heart disease and chronic inflammatory illnesses with diet, 80-10-10 and fruit based diets converting fat, ill people into optimally lean and healthy ones, Dr Mcdougals cooked starched based diet (rice/pasta/potatoes/corn etc), again, producing fantastic results.

 

There's the 'superjuiceme' documentary showing 8 obese and/or chronically ill people able to throw away most of their prescription drugs after one month on a fruit juice diet.

 

Easily available for free on youtube is the documentary 'fat, sick and nearly dead'- 2 obese and chronically ill men on a 6 month juice diet that cures them of both conditions.

 

Meanwhile, millions of chronically ill and/or obese people follow nutritional and health advice from the medical system and remain ill/obese, taking pharmacutical drugs, probably for the rest of their lives, that do nothing to tackle the actual illness, other than to manage symptoms.

 

What all those above diets have in common, is that they are plant based, abhor the use of highly-processed 'foods', and, are naturally extremely low in fats.

 

They actively dissasociate themselves, in the main, from vegetarianism and veganism (and if they are vegan diets, stress the low fat vegan aspect), because they know full well that there are a lot of fat and ill vegetarians and vegans out there.

 

Most importantly, they produce results, and document them.

 

If the medical establishment had the will, they could run proper scientific studies on those diets- for whatever reason, they don't.

 

I really do not understand what you are claiming.

 

Are you seriously claiming that the medical industry recommends that people eat high processed foods or they recommend that people take medications instead of eating healthily and exercising more if they want to lose weight?

 

The medical industry is there when, for what ever reason, people cannot eat healthily or exercise. And you recommend that when people cannot eat healthily or exercise the doctor should recommend that the person should go on a fruitarian diet?

 

Really?

 

If someone hasn't got the will power to eat healthily in the first place, what makes you think that they'd have the will power to eat a fruitarian diet?

 

Also, the benefit that you claim that the fruitarian diet gives you seems nothing more than the benefits that anybody would get from switching from a lifestyle that made them obese to one that is a lot more healthier.

 

And this switch, and support to help the switch from a lifestyle that made them obese to one that is a lot more healthier would be the always be the first line of treatment.

[onewheeldave]

You seem to have all the answers, yet theirs still millions of people struggling with their weight.

 

Stopping smoking is simple, you just don't smoke again, yet millions of people find it almost impossible to give up.

 

It's not as black and white as you're making out.

 

It is actually. I spent 10 years trying to quit smoking, then succeeded 14 years ago using the 'allan carr method', which despite requiring no willpower and avoiding the cravings common to other methods, and, which has enabled hundreds of thousands to escape smoking, has, like the diet stuff, received no support from the medical profession which seems to regard it with contempt.

 

The medical profession, in contrast, threw its weight and recommendatory power behind various pharmacutical products like nicotine patches and gums i.e. ones with a profit actuality that allan carrs method lacked.

 

---------- Post added 14-07-2014 at 18:28 ----------

 

 

Sorry, but how can a 6 month juice diet cure obesity? That's not a sustainable diet.

Basically, obese people do a 6 month juice diet and cease to be obese i.e. the weight goes away.

 

Then, at their choice, they can start stuffing themselves with the same processed crap that got them in that state in the first place, or, move onto one of the many plant based unprocessed low fat lifelong diets, and remain lean and healthy.

 

It's not something I'm going to quibble about as it's been done. It's fact. The documentary 'fat, sick and nearly dead' follows 2 men who do it- it's available to watch free on youtube, Why don't you watch it, then come back and offer your thoughts?

[Klondike Kid]

Muscle is heavier than fat but muscle doesn't clog up your artery's or cause other nasty ilness's like fat does so thats the difference.

I'm also muscle heavy which is good because your leading a healthy life style.

This is about funding mainly and I have nothing against NHS dealing with obesity IF the funding is healthy for other problems not brought on by self abuse.

Let's not get down the road of obese people due to illness and obese due to self infliction there completely different

 

You seem to have misunderstood the point I was trying to make. The fact that they use BMI scores as the criteria for determining whether one is overweight, obese or within "normal" bands is misleading.

[Bonzo77]

It is actually. I spent 10 years trying to quit smoking, then succeeded 14 years ago using the 'allan carr method', which despite requiring no willpower and avoiding the cravings common to other methods, and, which has enabled hundreds of thousands to escape smoking, has, like the diet stuff, received no support from the medical profession which seems to regard it with contempt.

 

The medical profession, in contrast, threw its weight and recommendatory power behind various pharmacutical products like nicotine patches and gums i.e. ones with a profit actuality that allan carrs method lacked.

 

---------- Post added 14-07-2014 at 18:28 ----------

 

Basically, obese people do a 6 month juice diet and cease to be obese i.e. the weight goes away.

 

Then, at their choice, they can start stuffing themselves with the same processed crap that got them in that state in the first place, or, move onto one of the many plant based unprocessed low fat lifelong diets, and remain lean and healthy.

 

It's not something I'm going to quibble about as it's been done. It's fact. The documentary 'fat, sick and nearly dead' follows 2 men who do it- it's available to watch free on youtube, Why don't you watch it, then come back and offer your thoughts?

 

I tried the same method to stop smoking. Didn't work at all. I found it useless. Therefore it's not a cure. Neither is a fad diet for fat people. That's a fact too!