Treatment for Obesity on NHS

[onewheeldave]

I tried the same method to stop smoking. Didn't work at all. I found it useless. Therefore it's not a cure. Neither is a fad diet for fat people. That's a fact too!

 

:lol:

 

So, it didn't work for you, therefore it's not a cure.

 

It worked for me, and hundreds of thousands of others, which clearly shows that, for some (i.e. me and the hundreds of thousands of other success stories, it clearly is a cure).

 

Or does 'cure' only apply if it works for everyone? In which case there'd be no cures, cos nothing works for everyone.

 

The other thing about Allan Carrs method, is that it only works if you a) understand it and b)actually follow what he says exactly

 

I've known many people who claim or believe they've tried his method, but, a little questioning generally shows they've actually tried their interpretation of his method

 

Not saying that's the case with you, just making an observation.

 

Neither is a fad diet for fat people. That's a fact too!

 

I agree 100%. Fads diets are bad diets.

 

Just a little unclear why you're bringing fad diets into the conversation?

 

None of the diets I've mentioned are fad diets- every one is tried and tested with large numbers of documented success stories- people who've lost weight and gained health, and maintained those results long term over many years.

 

For example here's Freelee the banana girls latest vid, showing results from 7.5 years on a high carb, low fat vegan lifestyle-

 

 

Her channel contains hundreds of videos from those 7.5 years, showing absolutely consistent leaness, vitality and excellent health.

[Bonzo77]

:lol:

 

So, it didn't work for you, therefore it's not a cure.

 

It worked for me, and hundreds of thousands of others, which clearly shows that, for some (i.e. me and the hundreds of thousands of other success stories, it clearly is a cure).

 

Or does 'cure' only apply if it works for everyone? In which case there'd be no cures, cos nothing works for everyone.

 

The other thing about Allan Carrs method, is that it only works if you a) understand it and b)actually follow what he says exactly

 

I've known many people who claim or believe they've tried his method, but, a little questioning generally shows they've actually tried their interpretation of his method

 

Not saying that's the case with you, just making an observation.

 

 

 

I agree 100%. Fads diets are bad diets.

 

Just a little unclear why you're bringing fad diets into the conversation?

 

None of the diets I've mentioned are fad diets- every one is tried and tested with large numbers of documented success stories- people who've lost weight and gained health, and maintained those results long term over many years.

 

For example here's Freelee the banana girls latest vid, showing results from 7.5 years on a high carb, low fat vegan lifestyle-

 

 

Her channel contains hundreds of videos from those 7.5 years, showing absolutely consistent leaness, vitality and excellent health.

 

So, just because something works for you, you think it should work for everyone?

 

I tried your so called 'cure', and I found it one of the most pointless, unhelpful methods out of the lot! I'm still not cured of my addiction. And there's no need to be patronising, I understood it!!

 

How you can say a 6 month juice diet isn't a fad diet is beyond me. If it's not a total change of eating habit that's sustainable for the rest of someone's life, its a fad diet! Again, there's no way on earth that you'd get all obese people to drink juice for 6 months, haha!

[onewheeldave]

So, just because something works for you, you think it should work for everyone?

 

I think that because it worked for me, and several thousand other people, that it's well worthy of consideration by any overweight/obese/chronically ill people who've found that conventional diets and medical advice don't work for them.

 

 

 

I tried your so called 'cure', and I found it one of the most pointless, unhelpful methods out of the lot! I'm still not cured of my addiction. And there's no need to be patronising, I understood it!!

 

Like I said, I question that you understood it, purely because I've found that a lot of people who failed on it, either didn't understand what Carr was saying, or, didn't follow what he said.

 

 

How you can say a 6 month juice diet isn't a fad diet is beyond me. If it's not a total change of eating habit that's sustainable for the rest of someone's life, its a fad diet! Again, there's no way on earth that you'd get all obese people to drink juice for 6 months, haha!

I say it's not a fad diet because I've seen multiple obese people who where suffering from serious chronic illnesses (to the point their healthcare professionals had told them they could well die quite soon) cure themselves and attain a healthy weight by doing the juice fast.

 

The real question is why you persist in calling diets that have saved lives, 'fads'??

 

No-ones suggesting that a juice diet is sustainable long term- although fruitarianism, high carb low fat veganism, 80-10-10, plant strong and Mcdougals cooked starch based diets, clearly are.

 

 

Again, there's no way on earth that you'd get all obese people to drink juice for 6 months, haha!

 

Never said there was. But quite a few have done (and documented it) and now it's obvious that these diets can cure obesity, quite a few more will give it a go.

[Cyclone]

You're entitled to your opinions- I disagree with them.

 

The information necessary to over come obesity is out there.

 

We have the 'plant strong' movement in America- reversing heart disease and chronic inflammatory illnesses with diet, 80-10-10 and fruit based diets converting fat, ill people into optimally lean and healthy ones, Dr Mcdougals cooked starched based diet (rice/pasta/potatoes/corn etc), again, producing fantastic results.

 

There's the 'superjuiceme' documentary showing 8 obese and/or chronically ill people able to throw away most of their prescription drugs after one month on a fruit juice diet.

 

Easily available for free on youtube is the documentary 'fat, sick and nearly dead'- 2 obese and chronically ill men on a 6 month juice diet that cures them of both conditions.

 

Meanwhile, millions of chronically ill and/or obese people follow nutritional and health advice from the medical system and remain ill/obese, taking pharmacutical drugs, probably for the rest of their lives, that do nothing to tackle the actual illness, other than to manage symptoms.

 

What all those above diets have in common, is that they are plant based, abhor the use of highly-processed 'foods', and, are naturally extremely low in fats.

 

They actively dissasociate themselves, in the main, from vegetarianism and veganism (and if they are vegan diets, stress the low fat vegan aspect), because they know full well that there are a lot of fat and ill vegetarians and vegans out there.

 

Most importantly, they produce results, and document them.

 

If the medical establishment had the will, they could run proper scientific studies on those diets- for whatever reason, they don't.

 

I don't believe that there is a lack of interest or will in diet research. The fact that there are no published scientific papers making the news in nature is because the results are not as dramatic as video's on youtube might suggest.

 

---------- Post added 15-07-2014 at 11:30 ----------

 

I think that because it worked for me, and several thousand other people, that it's well worthy of consideration by any overweight/obese/chronically ill people who've found that conventional diets and medical advice don't work for them.

 

 

Like I said, I question that you understood it, purely because I've found that a lot of people who failed on it, either didn't understand what Carr was saying, or, didn't follow what he said.

Would you appreciate it if we made the same statement about traditional weight loss? Ie, it didn't work for you because you either didn't understand it, or failed to actually do what was required.

 

I say it's not a fad diet because I've seen multiple obese people who where suffering from serious chronic illnesses (to the point their healthcare professionals had told them they could well die quite soon) cure themselves and attain a healthy weight by doing the juice fast.

 

The real question is why you persist in calling diets that have saved lives, 'fads'??

Because it bares all the signs of being such. Just like Atkins, and any other number of diets.

They can all achieve weight loss, but it's not a long term healthy or effective way to live.

 

I'm interested in why you appear to be presenting a false dichotomy between juice/fruitarian diet and eating massively processed unhealthy food?

 

The vast majority of people are somewhere between the two extremes, they eat fruit and veg, they also eat unprocessed meat and grains, rice and dairy. The vast majority of these people are healthy whilst eating a balanced diet.

[onewheeldave]

Would you appreciate it if we made the same statement about traditional weight loss? Ie, it didn't work for you because you either didn't understand it, or failed to actually do what was required.

 

I've no problem with that actually. I know that calories restriction diets involving deprivation and hunger can work for some.

 

I know that if I went on such a diet and endured the hunger, that I'd lose weight on it.

 

I also know that due to being a person with low willpower and a real aversion to hunger, that, emotionally, I would give in to temptation and fail.

 

So, I do understand those diets, but, I failed to do what was required i.e. experience regular hunger.

 

On this current lifelong healthy diet which has converted my regular everyday weight from 13 stone to a lean 11 stone, I'm doing very well, as it involves no hunger whatsoever.

 

Self honesty is important in achieving results- facing up to your weaknesses (lack of will power and emotional inability to tolerate hunger), then finding a diet/method which does not require the things you are not good at, is one way to achieve success).

 

I happen to think that I'm not the only person lacking willpower and unwilling to endure hunger- I thing that many of those still obese and chronically ill may also suffer from weakness in those areas.

 

For that reason I'm trying to get the message out that there is a way of eating that bypasses those weaknesses.

 

---------- Post added 15-07-2014 at 13:33 ----------

 

 

 

I'm interested in why you appear to be presenting a false dichotomy between juice/fruitarian diet and eating massively processed unhealthy food?

 

The vast majority of people are somewhere between the two extremes, they eat fruit and veg, they also eat unprocessed meat and grains, rice and dairy. The vast majority of these people are healthy whilst eating a balanced diet.

 

If they're healthy and not obese, then good luck to them- I've nothing to offer them.

 

I'm trying to help those who aren't healthy and are obese, of which there are many, and the numbers are increasing.

 

---------- Post added 15-07-2014 at 13:39 ----------

 

I don't believe that there is a lack of interest or will in diet research. The fact that there are no published scientific papers making the news in nature is because the results are not as dramatic as video's on youtube might suggest.

 

The results are dramatic though.

 

I take it you refused to watch the vid link I posted?

 

For example here's Freelee the banana girls latest vid, showing results from 7.5 years on a high carb, low fat vegan lifestyle-

 

 

Her channel contains hundreds of videos from those 7.5 years, showing absolutely consistent leaness, vitality and excellent health.

 

She was overweight and ill, and, the first couple of minutes she displays the results of long term eating a high carb low fat vegan diet based primarily on raw unprocessed fruits, along with veg and cooked starches.

 

i.e. she's in a bikini showing exactly what it's done to her body- her channel contains vids of her over the past few years, showing clearly that her leaness and health have been consistent over those years.

 

Watch just the first minute of that video, then come back here and explain how her results are not dramatic.

[JFKvsNixon]

I've no problem with that actually. I know that calories restriction diets involving deprivation and hunger can work for some.

 

I know that if I went on such a diet and endured the hunger, that I'd lose weight on it.

 

I also know that due to being a person with low willpower and a real aversion to hunger, that, emotionally, I would give in to temptation and fail.

 

So, I do understand those diets, but, I failed to do what was required i.e. experience regular hunger.

 

On this current lifelong healthy diet which has converted my regular everyday weight from 13 stone to a lean 11 stone, I'm doing very well, as it involves no hunger whatsoever.

 

Self honesty is important in achieving results- facing up to your weaknesses (lack of will power and emotional inability to tolerate hunger), then finding a diet/method which does not require the things you are not good at, is one way to achieve success).

 

I happen to think that I'm not the only person lacking willpower and unwilling to endure hunger- I thing that many of those still obese and chronically ill may also suffer from weakness in those areas.

 

For that reason I'm trying to get the message out that there is a way of eating that bypasses those weaknesses.

 

---------- Post added 15-07-2014 at 13:33 ----------

 

 

If they're healthy and not obese, then good luck to them- I've nothing to offer them.

 

I'm trying to help those who aren't healthy and are obese, of which there are many, and the numbers are increasing.

 

---------- Post added 15-07-2014 at 13:39 ----------

 

 

The results are dramatic though.

 

I take it you refused to watch the vid link I posted?

 

 

 

She was overweight and ill, and, the first couple of minutes she displays the results of long term eating a high carb low fat vegan diet based primarily on raw unprocessed fruits, along with veg and cooked starches.

 

i.e. she's in a bikini showing exactly what it's done to her body- her channel contains vids of her over the past few years, showing clearly that her leaness and health have been consistent over those years.

 

Watch just the first minute of that video, then come back here and explain how her results are not dramatic.

 

If someone hasn't got the will power to eat healthily in the first place, what makes you think that they'd have the will power to eat a fruitarian diet?

[Cyclone]

 

The results are dramatic though.

 

I take it you refused to watch the vid link I posted?

I'm at work dude, I can't spend the day watching stuff on youtube.

 

She was overweight and ill, and, the first couple of minutes she displays the results of long term eating a high carb low fat vegan diet based primarily on raw unprocessed fruits, along with veg and cooked starches.

 

i.e. she's in a bikini showing exactly what it's done to her body- her channel contains vids of her over the past few years, showing clearly that her leaness and health have been consistent over those years.

 

Watch just the first minute of that video, then come back here and explain how her results are not dramatic.

 

You're missing my point. Her anecdotal results might be dramatic. But they aren't scientific and they don't prove anything about the long term health affects, or that the diet is somehow better than normal healthy eating.

I'm interested in scientific studies, not anecdotes, and I still wouldn't recommend a diet like this unless there was some reason someone couldn't just eat a normal healthy diet.

[onewheeldave]

You're missing my point. Her anecdotal results might be dramatic. But they aren't scientific and they don't prove anything about the long term health affects, or that the diet is somehow better than normal healthy eating.

I'm interested in scientific studies, not anecdotes, and I still wouldn't recommend a diet like this unless there was some reason someone couldn't just eat a normal healthy diet.

 

Ah... we differ on that. I did spend lots of time trudging through double-blind, placebo controlled peer reviewed scientific studies, before I decided it was an utter waste of my time.

 

The fact that over the past few decades, despite (or maybe because of...?) vast amounts of such research, public health in the civilised west has gone progressively downhill, with obesity, diabetes, heart disease and other chronic diseases achieving epidemic proportions, led me to doubt them.

 

Along with scandals like the trans fats debacle, where upwards of 4 million victims (very conservative estimate, based on figures proven by actual scientific studies) are known to have died, as a direct result of following medical nutritional advice to eat foods like margarine, which, in those days, were loaded with deadly trans fats.

 

I'm interested in results- anecdotal ones like those of freelee and many others who have documented their overcoming of illness and/or obesity, and their long term leaness and health post adopting a healthy high carb, low fat, plant based lifestyle.

 

Along with my own success from adopting that lifestyle.

 

Maybe in the next couple of decades, science will get its act together and validify the fact that a high carb, low fat, plant based lifestyle leads to optimal leaness and health- sadly, millions of obese unfortunates will die while waiting.

 

Or, they can do what I've done, and try it out themselves- there's no danger- in the impossible event that the diet makes them iller, or blood tests reveal issues, it's straightforward to go back to a the diet they originaly were on

 

---------- Post added 15-07-2014 at 14:54 ----------

 

I'm at work dude, I can't spend the day watching stuff on youtube.

 

 

You go home presumably? When you do, could you not spare one minute to watch the first minute of a vid which shows the physique and health of a previously ill and overweight lady who's achieved spectacular long term results from 7.5 years on the lifesyle.

 

---------- Post added 15-07-2014 at 14:56 ----------

 

If someone hasn't got the will power to eat healthily in the first place, what makes you think that they'd have the will power to eat a fruitarian diet?

 

Because the fruit/plant based lifestyle I'm talking about involves no hunger, as previously explained.

 

And, because I've succeeded on it, as have many others, who previously failed on conventional diets that do require willpower and enduring hunger.

[Cyclone]

Ah... we differ on that. I did spend lots of time trudging through double-blind, placebo controlled peer reviewed scientific studies, before I decided it was an utter waste of my time.

 

The fact that over the past few decades, despite (or maybe because of...?) vast amounts of such research, public health in the civilised west has gone progressively downhill, with obesity, diabetes, heart disease and other chronic diseases achieving epidemic proportions, led me to doubt them.

The published research doesn't translate into people changing their diet, or even necessarily into any kind of education program aimed at doing so.

 

Along with scandals like the trans fats debacle, where upwards of 4 million victims (very conservative estimate, based on figures proven by actual scientific studies) are known to have died, as a direct result of following medical nutritional advice to eat foods like margarine, which, in those days, were loaded with deadly trans fats.

We've discussed this before. Science isn't infallible, doesn't claim to be. There will be mistakes. I'd rather still rely on science than on "not science".

 

I'm interested in results- anecdotal ones like those of freelee and many others who have documented their overcoming of illness and/or obesity, and their long term leaness and health post adopting a healthy high carb, low fat, plant based lifestyle.

I'm interested in information, I don't believe anecdotes are useful information.

 

Along with my own success from adopting that lifestyle.

 

Maybe in the next couple of decades, science will get its act together and validify the fact that a high carb, low fat, plant based lifestyle leads to optimal leaness and health- sadly, millions of obese unfortunates will die while waiting.

They'll continue to die afterwards as well, because they like to eat cake and microwave chips.

They've got about as much chance of changing to a fruitarian diet as they have of winning the London Marathon, IMO.

 

Or, they can do what I've done, and try it out themselves- there's no danger- in the impossible event that the diet makes them iller, or blood tests reveal issues, it's straightforward to go back to a the diet they originaly were on

 

---------- Post added 15-07-2014 at 14:54 ----------

 

 

You go home presumably? When you do, could you not spare one minute to watch the first minute of a vid which shows the physique and health of a previously ill and overweight lady who's achieved spectacular long term results from 7.5 years on the lifesyle.

To what point. I'm not surprised that she's lost weight whilst eating what is in effect a low calorie diet. She could have done the same in many other ways. The key was that she changed her diet from whatever it was before (which was unhealthy as it had caused her to become overweight).

 

Because the fruit/plant based lifestyle I'm talking about involves no hunger, as previously explained.

But it does involve not eating chocolate, crisps, drinking coke, etc...

Not being hungry isn't the difficult bit, IMO.

 

And, because I've succeeded on it, as have many others, who previously failed on conventional diets that do require willpower and enduring hunger.

 

And lots of other people have succeeded to just eat a healthy diet.

[onewheeldave]

Not being hungry isn't the difficult bit, IMO.

 

 

Lucky you- I can't deal with being hungry on a regular basis.

 

I'm not trying to help you, or people who don't have weight/health issues.

 

I'm offering a way out for those who do and who, like me, can't succeed on calorie restricting diets that involve regular hunger.